Analysis of USAirways FFDO Discharge


PascalFleischman

New member
This is an interesting piece. I've never seen the FFDO rig, but it looks pretty ridiculous, and I now fully understand what might've transpired in the cockpit. Unfortunately, all the "Massengil products" at the TSA will blame others instead of their flawed policies. Ban guns in the cockpit!!!

http://www.crimefilenews.com/2008/03/video-of-dangerous-firearm-policy-of.html
 

Cooter

Liberty or Death
That makes sense.
Ironic that a pad lock designed for safety, causes a very unsafe situation.
 

HowardCohodas

New member
Wouldn't have been an issue if the pilot followed the instructions of the holster manufacturer.

Of course it was pilot error. Pilots are human. They have lapses of judgement. Lapses in judgement have caused crashes. But, it is the job of systems engineers to engineer systems that are fail soft. Every incedent of pilot error is a teachable moment. Systems are analysed (including training and proceedures and equipment) and sometimes changes are made.

In my opinion (I am a systems engineer), the holster/lock is not a fail soft solution. However, one must remember, this solution was developed more by politics than good engineering practice. Given the politics, I am not hopeful of a better engineered solution.

My takeoff on an old saw... A camel is a mouse designed by politions.
 

Red Hat

New member
What a crock! I can see how that system could cause problems. Why have a lock anyway? They have to lock the gun before they can open the cockpit door...that's when they really need it. When is the best time to take over an aircraft, when the door is opened. Plus the BG's now know their procedures
 
Of course it was pilot error. Pilots are human. They have lapses of judgement. Lapses in judgement have caused crashes. But, it is the job of systems engineers to engineer systems that are fail soft. Every incedent of pilot error is a teachable moment. Systems are analysed (including training and proceedures and equipment) and sometimes changes are made.

In my opinion (I am a systems engineer), the holster/lock is not a fail soft solution. However, one must remember, this solution was developed more by politics than good engineering practice. Given the politics, I am not hopeful of a better engineered solution.


Well, I'm not a "systems engineer" or any other type of "engineer". My experience as a NRA Instructor tell me that the safest and most practical solution would be a concealed lock box or gun safe in the cockpit. I've seen them on private jets that I've worked on so I know that there are places where these things can be installed.

Reality is that humans do make mistakes. Some mistakes are more serious than others. I sincerely hope that the pilot gets some type of punishment that reflects the seriousness of the "lapse in judgment" that he had. :eek:



gf
 

mom of 3 angels

New member
This just in this morning on the Shooting Wire--Termination proceedings begin for the pilot:

"The Federal Flight Deck Officers Association says US Airways has begun termination processes against Capt. James Lengenhahn, the pilot whose firearm accidentally discharged in the cockpit during a flight last month. Langenhahn, 55, told investigators he was in the process of stowing his .40 caliber H&K USP when it accidentally fired. Flight Deck Officers Association vice president Mike Karn, the association that represents federally trained pilots who are allowed to carry firearms on flights, says the association will fight the termination. "This accident was not intentional," Karn said, "This is not the way to treat a long-term pilot." The gun discharge was the first public incident of its kind in the history of the Federal Flight Deck Officer program, which has trained thousands of pilots to carry weapons in an effort to improve aviation safety. The stowage and securing procedures mandated for the flight deck firearms has been widely criticized as dangerous and made an accidental discharge inevitable."
 
I'm actually really surprised they use those lockthrough type holsters. I would have gone for a stow away type box or something. Thats more typical in private planes and other means of transportation. It seems a bit less prone to problems, than something that places a lock through the barrier of the trigger guard. An improperly seated firearm and a lock can yield problems. Again, coming from a "systems" pov like others. However, does anyone know if it is policy to be locking up the gun still loaded in that holster. Seems like a possiblity for failure. It just seems like a bad recipe to add a tired pilot and such a complicated method of storing a weapon. pulling off the holster and tucking it in a lockbox seems to be a better option. I still see it utimately a failure of the individual and perhaps training. Still, I'd be interested to read the policy and procedures involved. It seems like storing in the on position within that holster has bad potential, if someone is not paying exact attention. Its a shame the pilot was fired, but at least this can hopefully be a learning experience, and not an excuse to rid cockpits of firearms.
 

gordo

New member
I think that the termination probably has as much to do with it happening on final approach as it does on the fact that it happened. He should not have been handling the gun until he was shut down at the gate! The passengers deserve both pilots full attention on the aircraft during the most dangeroud part of flying.
 

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