Clueless cops crush Constitution


lukem

Administrator
Staff member
A June 8 murder of two young people in rural Waleetka has provided the excuse for the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation, or OSBI, to behave as if the Bill of Rights is an impediment to be overcome in order to employ effective police procedures.

In their search for the killer, the OSBI sent a letter to some 60 owners of .40-caliber handguns (the same caliber as used by the murderer) in the community where the victims had lived. The letter "invited" the owners to bring the guns in for testing.

This letter raises disturbing questions.

The first question is: What is the probable cause that would justify sending the letter to the selected handgun owners? If there were probable cause, why were no warrants obtained per the Fourth Amendment?

For the 20 or so owners who have not responded to the "invitation," will they be forced to testify against themselves (in violation of the Fifth Amendment) in some second phase of the investigation? If they do not comply with a warrantless "invitation," will the OSBI agents tell us that that now gives them probable cause? This sounds like a dragnet, not an investigation.


The second question is: Where did the police get a registration list of Oklahoma gun owners? This violation of the Second Amendment should outrage every gun owner, indeed, every freedom-loving citizen of the state.

The third question: Why does OSBI think that a registered gun will lead them to the murderer? I will repeat now what I told the media during the Beltway Sniper murder spree in 2002. Cops will find the murderer's gun (if they ever find it) when they find the murderer.

How can cops in the gun-friendly state of Oklahoma be so clueless? A policewoman called in to a Philadelphia talk show I was doing years ago. She stated that in her 26 years on the force she had never arrested a criminal who had used a registered gun.

OSBI agents should be sent back to school. What they are doing to Oklahoma gun owners is not only constitutionally offensive; it is a waste of time. They have put themselves into the same ridiculous club whose membership includes Montgomery County, Maryland's former police chief, Charles Moose.

Chief Moose led an investigation similar to that of the OSBI's. His officers got a registration list of Maryland suburban gun owners who had bought rifles that used the same caliber as the Muslims who were conducting their Beltway Sniper jihad. Moose was convinced that the murderer was a disgruntled white man (similar to the voters whom Obama complains bitterly that cling to their guns and Bibles) driving a white panel truck.

Well, I was right and Moose was wrong. When some truckers found the murderers, it turned out that they were two black converts to Islam who were asleep in their grey sedan. One of them was cradling the murder weapon.

Where did Chief Moose get his registration list? From the same place the OSBI got their registration list. Government agents can rummage through the names and addresses of gun owners in the name of fighting crime – and they get this information from the records the federal government unconstitutionally requires firearms dealers to maintain.

Gun owners should be aware that historically, registration lists have never been used to solve crimes, but they have made dandy tools for disarming the subjects of a dictatorship. Think Cuba (under Fidel Castro), Uganda (under Idi Imin), Cambodia (under Pol Pot), China (under Mao Zedong), Germany (under Adolf Hitler) and Russia (under Vladimir Lenin).

Chief Moose and the OSBI have provided, and are providing, more proof (as if we needed it) that registration is not a crime-fighting tool.

The 1968 Gun Control Act imposed the decentralized, but very real, national registration system that now records all gun owners who buy a gun from a dealer. That is why Gun Owners of America has always opposed the 1968 Gun Control Act and has asked Congress to dismantle this threat to freedom – a scheme that is not even effective in fighting crime.

Without an unconstitutional registration list at its disposal, OSBI would not have had this opportunity to trample on the Bill of Rights – and embarrass themselves in public.

Source: World Net Daily
 

HK4U

New member
Thanks Luke for posting this. If this does not send chills down your spine you may be dead already.
 

gunowner

New member
little girls

If you will remember two little girls were shot to death and left in the ditch of the road like dogs. According to the news reports they both had multiple shots from the head to the groin. Just riddled with bullets. Little defenseless, innocent girls. Can you imagine what it was like for their parents to find their baby girls like that? The animal that could do such a thing deserves worse than our culture will allow for punishment. How can anyone argue that the police sending letters asking to eliminate guns in an effort to narrow their search is such an intrusion on our freedom? Thats bullcrap. Posting bulletin board messages criticizing the investigators and calling them clueless does nothing to promote 2nd amendment freedom. I believe in rights to privacy and I am as pro-gun as anybody. But if the cops know the murder weapon was a .40 caliber Glock it seems to me what they are doing is simply trying to catch a cold blooded murderer. I am sick or reading and hearing people whining about what a violation of our rights it is. Whats a violation is not being able to let our kids walk down the road without them being executed. I'm a life member of the NRA so don't even try questioning my motives for this post. My motive is common sense.

As far as embarassing themselves in public...the ones who should be embarassed are the ones who would do anything to hinder them finding the girls killer. They've (OSBI) done nothing to be embarassed about.
 
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What good is it for them to bring in there guns? Whats to stop me from just changing my gun barrel out with a new one?
 

kwo51

New member
The point was that it is unusual for a legal gun to be used in this matter.Hell yes please catch the and draw and quarter them.
 

robiewan

New member
Murdered girls and trampled rights

First off, this is not an emotional debate it is a debate concerning freedom. When any single constitutional right is violated it is an affront to all of us and it must be stopped immediately. To not do this is to invite another era of Hitlerism, the Police State and Socialism or Communism. We all fight to keep these evils at bay as much as is possible.

Am I upset and swayed emotionally by the brutal slaying of two very innocent young girls? You bet I am however, we have laws, we have due process, and we have the supreme law of the land, the constitution, which dictates what is legal and what is illegal to incorporate into law, or in this instance, what recourse's are available in searching for and finding a murderer. These are sacrosanct and ought to never be violated.

Now, as to sending letters with NO weight of law to legal gun owners "asking" them to bring in their guns for testing? This is wrong! Let me explain one reason it is wrong, besides the obvious affront to our constitution. Not all murderers perform a crime in their local area. Many travel, sometimes hundreds, if not thousands, of miles to do their evil deeds. The simple fact that a crime occurs in a given area is no indicator that it is a local person who is responsible. It could be a Californian Gang-Banger in Detroit who killed someone with a .40 calibre gun for all we know? Does that then imply that all .40 calibre owners in Detroit are suspect? Maybe, however, police have many, many other legal avenues to obtain what they need in order to properly arrest and charge the guilty party. None of these methods allow for sending a letter "requesting" your cooperation, then to use that same letter to "prove" your circumstantial guilt because either; a0 you were out of town and just returned home to find you are being detained for something you weren't even around to be guilty of. B) You chose to live by the guidelines of our sacred constitution and now it is being thrown aside because you know your rights? C) Unbeknown to you your house was broken into and you never noticed your .40 calibre was missing. Knowing your rights upon receiving this absurd letter you threw it away, later to find your weapon missing along with other items which may also be infrequently used?

As you can see, these are only a couple of instances where everything the constitution protects us against, or guaranties to us as God-Given, could be abused and violated! I certainly hope the police do catch the criminal, or criminals who murdered these two young, innocent girls! I hope they get the hangman's rope.
But this can and should be done by all legal means without violating our rights and constitution. These were put in place to protect all of us from wayward government, or government gone awry. It was also said by Thomas Jefferson that those who would give up their rights for a little peace and security do not deserve either (paraphrased & I hope I got the correct Founding Father--but it was said!).

I for one would not give up my peace, my security or my rights for something as illegal as wht they are doing in this situation, it is plain and simply Wrong!
 
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tattedupboy

Thank God I'm alive!
If you will remember two little girls were shot to death and left in the ditch of the road like dogs. According to the news reports they both had multiple shots from the head to the groin. Just riddled with bullets. Little defenseless, innocent girls. Can you imagine what it was like for their parents to find their baby girls like that? The animal that could do such a thing deserves worse than our culture will allow for punishment. How can anyone argue that the police sending letters asking to eliminate guns in an effort to narrow their search is such an intrusion on our freedom? Thats bullcrap. Posting bulletin board messages criticizing the investigators and calling them clueless does nothing to promote 2nd amendment freedom. I believe in rights to privacy and I am as pro-gun as anybody. But if the cops know the murder weapon was a .40 caliber Glock it seems to me what they are doing is simply trying to catch a cold blooded murderer. I am sick or reading and hearing people whining about what a violation of our rights it is. Whats a violation is not being able to let our kids walk down the road without them being executed. I'm a life member of the NRA so don't even try questioning my motives for this post. My motive is common sense.

As far as embarassing themselves in public...the ones who should be embarassed are the ones who would do anything to hinder them finding the girls killer. They've (OSBI) done nothing to be embarassed about.
Let me be the first to welcome you to USA Carry, gunowner. Welcome aboard!

As for your post, nothing gave the police reason to believe that any of the town's law abiding gun owners was at fault, and, as the conclusion shows, all the posters were right. The actual killers used a gun that was not listed on the registry. We're just as much in favor of catching the bad guys as you are, and for that matter, as antis are, but not at the expense of a law abiding citizen's liberty.
 

HK4U

New member
Why stop with sending out letters? Why not just bring in the military and do house to house searches to find what your are looking for. Also pull over ever car and search them and make sure they have their "papers."
 

kwo51

New member
Not to mention checking all leo's 40's. This is horrific and I hope it is solved soon.:bad:
 

Gatorb8

New member
I think a case like this was solved in Miami. There was an episode of "First 48" on A&E the weapon was a Desert Eagle .50 and there were only like 3 registered in Dade county. I would have to see the episode again but I believe it was a registered weapon that committed the crime.

~^Gatorb8^~
 

Scarecrow

New member
Why stop with sending out letters? Why not just bring in the military and do house to house searches to find what your are looking for. Also pull over ever car and search them and make sure they have their "papers."
careful what you ask for.
 

Oregon Vet

NRA Life Since 03/1985
Law enforcement in the wrong...

As far as embarassing themselves in public...the ones who should be embarassed are the ones who would do anything to hinder them finding the girls killer. They've (OSBI) done nothing to be embarassed about.
We have rules. That is how we (hopefully) get along with each other. But what the OSBI did do, is totally wrong.

IF they were worried about those few .40 caliber guns, then a much more correct letter for them to have written to those people (whom OSBI had illegally gotten their names) would have been:

Dear owner of a .40 caliber gun,

We have two murders we are trying to solve and would like you to please look and see if your .40 caliber gun is still in your possession. If you think it may have been missing the last few days, would you please notify us promptly. If you think someone may have used your weapon and returned it, would you please bring it to the local state police station so we can rule it out as the murder weapon.

Your help in this matter is appreciated very much.

Sincerely,

State Cops

----------------

I sure can't go along with: This caliber gun was used in this crime, there are 25,000 of them registered in this county, bring all those people in and grill them. Whether it was ONE gun or 100,000 guns that were the same, the cops did wrong.
They are calling people guilty without due process. If I lived there and they sent me a letter like they did send...I would NOT be a happy camper. The OSBI owes a bunch of people an apology.

That is as messed up as the cops taking peoples weapons after the hurricane a few years ago. Hopefully "that" problem is fixed.

I am a Life NRA member too, but I sure think different. If the cops think one or two of "those" people (who's names they got) are guilty, then they need to pursue those one or two people. Not everyone. And they had better have evidence why they think those one or two people are guilty of the murders.

But a blanket letter of: get down to the police station and bring your gun with you.

Nope, not a good thing to happen in American.

Ken
 

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