Law question


daniel804

New member
Unless you been living under a rock we all know what happened in Charlottesville Virginia and the deadly car incident that killed one lady my question can you use your concealed carry firearm to stop someone that's trying to run you over with a vehicle


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WanderingSol07

New member
Usually a car is considered a deadly weapon when used on purpose to hurt someone. I think the question would be "What happens if I shoot someone that appears to be running me over and it turns out to be accidental?" I also think by the time you think someone is going to run you over, whether you shoot them or not, the car is not going to stop before hitting you. Best to run instead of standing your ground.
 

bofh

Banned
Unless you been living under a rock we all know what happened in Charlottesville Virginia and the deadly car incident that killed one lady my question can you use your concealed carry firearm to stop someone that's trying to run you over with a vehicle
You apparently do not know the deadly force laws of your state. Maybe you should read up on them as knowing them might come in handy?

Simple answer, yes! More complicated answer, do you know how a windshield affects bullet trajectory?
 

bofh

Banned
Usually a car is considered a deadly weapon when used on purpose to hurt someone. I think the question would be "What happens if I shoot someone that appears to be running me over and it turns out to be accidental?" I also think by the time you think someone is going to run you over, whether you shoot them or not, the car is not going to stop before hitting you. Best to run instead of standing your ground.
The intent of the driver is irrelevant, as the victim can not read the mind of the driver. Did the victim has a reasonable fear of death or great bodily harm? That's the only question!

You may want to watch the video of the incident. There was no space to run/retreat.

Also, M.O.V.E. = motionless operators ventilate easily. If you are not moving, you are an easy target with and without your gun.
 

niceshootintex

New member
The intent of the driver is irrelevant, as the victim can not read the mind of the driver. Did the victim has a reasonable fear of death or great bodily harm? That's the only question!

You may want to watch the video of the incident. There was no space to run/retreat.

Also, M.O.V.E. = motionless operators ventilate easily. If you are not moving, you are an easy target with and without your gun.
I think if you shoot someone that you think is trying to kill or harm you that it will not be viewed as "accidental" but intentional. Nothing about the shooting is accidental if you draw and pull. The intentions of the driver will need to be investigated and/or corroborated though.

The Place To Be
 
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Bikenut

Guest
Seems to me anyone that noticed a car trying to run them over would be better served by getting out of the way rather than trying to shoot the driver. Especially since shooting the driver doesn't make the car stop.
 

bofh

Banned
I think if you shoot someone that you think is trying to kill or harm you that it will not be viewed as "accidental" but intentional. Nothing about the shooting is accidental if you draw and pull. The intentions of the driver will need to be investigated and/or corroborated though.

The Place To Be
Scratching my head here... I never said that the shooting would be accidental. The post I was replying to was suggesting that the circumstances change if the driver hit you accidentally and not intentionally, hence my reply about the intent of the driver. The intentions of the driver are irrelevant if you are in a reasonable fear of death or great bodily harm.
 

bofh

Banned
Seems to me anyone that noticed a car trying to run them over would be better served by getting out of the way rather than trying to shoot the driver. Especially since shooting the driver doesn't make the car stop.
Yet, law enforcement officers do this quite often with success, shooting at a driver that tries to run them over. Shooting and moving do not exclude each other, unless you only trained at a square range with shooting lanes. Shooting the driver makes him stop aiming the car at his intended target and pressing the gas pedal.
 
Last edited:

niceshootintex

New member
Scratching my head here... I never said that the shooting would be accidental. The post I was replying to was suggesting that the circumstances change if the driver hit you accidentally and not intentionally, hence my reply about the intent of the driver. The intentions of the driver are irrelevant if you are in a reasonable fear of death or great bodily harm.
I was using the sentence by wanderingsol7 that stated
"I think the question would be "What happens if I shoot someone that appears to be running me over and it turns out to be accidental?". Was a straightforward rhetorical question and I just answered it badly.

They were essentially stating "what would happen if you shoot Grandpa who had a stroke and started running over people at a Farmer's Market?". The answer is that its probably a bad hair day for the shooter at that point.

The Place To Be
 

bofh

Banned
I was using the sentence by wanderingsol7 that stated
"I think the question would be "What happens if I shoot someone that appears to be running me over and it turns out to be accidental?". Was a straightforward rhetorical question and I just answered it badly.

They were essentially stating "what would happen if you shoot Grandpa who had a stroke and started running over people at a Farmer's Market?". The answer is that its probably a bad hair day for the shooter at that point.

The Place To Be
My point is that the intention of the driver doesn't matter. The law does not require you to read the driver's mind before defending your life or the life of others. Deadly force law is always about if the actions of the person using deadly force was based on a reasonable fear of great bodily harm or death.

If you shot Grandpa who had a stroke and started running over people at a Farmer's Market, then you did shoot him to save the lives of the people at the Farmer's Market. Nowhere in the law does it say that if the deadly force applied by Grandpa was accidental or due to a medical condition that you have no right to self defense or the defense of the lives of others.
 
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Bikenut

Guest
Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
Seems to me anyone that noticed a car trying to run them over would be better served by getting out of the way rather than trying to shoot the driver. Especially since shooting the driver doesn't make the car stop.
Yet, law enforcement officers do this quite often with success, shooting at a driver that tries to run them over. Shooting and moving do not exclude each other, unless you only strained at a share range with shooting lanes. Shooting the driver makes him stop aiming the car at his intended target and pressing the gas pedal.
And so do the heroes in the movies. But in the real world with regular folks it would be better to move out of the way instead of trying to make a good shot at a small target, the driver, in a moving car while they themselves are moving out of the way. Not everyone is an uber tactical trained warrior, a cop with a duty to respond, or a movie hero.

And if a car is close enough to justify making the shot the car is close enough to keep right on coming with no guarantee the now shot, but likely not dead, driver's foot will slip off the accelerator. And if it happens to be a good shot and the driver is dead... dead people don't hit the brakes and stop the car. Just as the best way to survive a gun fight is to not be there when it starts the best way to avoid being run over by a car is to get out of the way.

And let me emphasize that the duty of the ordinary person isn't to "stop" a driver on a rampage but is merely to avoid being run over by that driver. And in the situation in Charlottesville, at least in my opinion, it would be very unwise to start popping off shots at that moving car because any shots that missed the car, or ricocheted off it, would have hit innocents... some of which saved themselves by getting out of the way only to end up shot by someone who wants to play hero.

Regardless of how trained a person may be in gun fighting or engaging in practice drills (even on 270 or even 360 degree ranges/shoot houses) the most important skill is knowing when the gun isn't the solution.

Edited to correct wording....
 

bofh

Banned
And so do the heroes in the movies. But in the real world with regular folks it would be better to move out of the way instead of trying to make a good shot at a small target, the driver, in a moving car while they themselves are moving out of the way. Not everyone is an uber tactical trained warrior, a cop with a duty to respond, or a movie hero.

And if a car is close enough to warrant making the shot the car is close enough to keep right on coming with no guarantee the now shot, but likely not dead, driver's foot will slip off the accelerator. And if it happens to be a good shot and the driver is dead... dead people don't hit the brakes and stop the car. Just as the best way to survive a gun fight is to not be there when it starts the best way to avoid being run over by a car is to get out of the way.

And let me emphasize that the duty of the ordinary person isn't to "stop" a driver on a rampage but is merely to avoid being run over by that driver. And in the situation in Charlottesville, at least in my opinion, it would be very unwise to start popping off shots at that moving car because any shots that missed the car, or ricocheted off it, would have hit innocents... some of which saved themselves by getting out of the way only to end up shot by someone who wants to play hero.

Regardless of how trained a person may be in gun fighting or engaging in practice drills (even on 360 degree ranges/shoot houses) the most important skill is knowing when the gun isn't the solution.
Cops do not have a duty to respond! I train with cops and the average cop is not a good shooter. I do train and practice shooting on the move and at moving targets. It certainly is not like in the movies and you are accountable for every bullet you fire. This isn't about playing hero. This is about saving lives if a situation and opportunity arises.

There is no black and white here. The choice depends on the situation. In the situation at the rally, most people would not have even had the time to draw their gun. That's why every training class I go to trains shooters to GET OFF THE X! That applies to most situations. It doesn't matter if you not draw your gun, if you draw it but not in time, or if you are actually getting a shot off. If you don't move, you are a nice stationary target. M.O.V.E. = motionless operators ventilate easily. Shooting and moving do not exclude each other, unless you only trained at a square range with shooting lanes.
 
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Bikenut

Guest
I repeat:

-snip-
Regardless of how trained a person may be in gun fighting or engaging in practice drills (even on 270 or even 360 degree ranges/shoot houses) the most important skill is knowing when the gun isn't the solution.

-snip-
 

Citori_cx

New member
Obviously yes...a car could certainly cause serious bodily injury or death.

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