Let's Get Real........


Zelenka

New member
I know there is a catchy little phrase going around that states "I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6" but how often is a defensive situation so clear cut that you can open fire with no fear of legal reprisal? Simply displaying a gun under the wrong conditions can cause you serious problems in most parts of the country. And when you make the life changing decision to pull that trigger, even under the BEST of conditions, you are putting your financial health, if not your freedom, at serious risk.
I for one will not carry concealed until the laws are more in line with the "Good Samaritan doctrine" that shields a person from prosecution when trying to do the right thing. It isn't enough that we are willing to risk our lives in a potential shoot out. Instead of being rewarded for our efforts we could actually end up in more trouble than the thug we are trying to defend against in some situations and THAT is simply WRONG!
As far as I'm concerned the CCW permit is the mark of a law-abiding citizen and nothing more.
 

kwo51

New member
How true. You could go to your grave not wanting to risk prosection.Or worse yet one of your kids,that you could have protected.I don't want to change a tire but I still have spares in all my cars.
 

Red Hat

New member
A "Good Samaritan doctrine" would be nice but will never happen. The closes we will come is the "Castle Doctrine" and a lot of states have it as law now. I can't see a blanket forgiveness over all shootings just because someone thought they were in their right to shoot. All I see from this is chaos.
but how often is a defensive situation so clear cut that you can open fire with no fear of legal reprisal?
Quite often actually! There are quite a few example on this site. Some of which you would probably think that were not justified. One case in mind is where a man call the police and told them that two people were breaking into his neighbors house. He told 911 that they were taking things out of the house and he had his shotgun and he was going to shoot the burglars. 911 telling him not to you next hear two gunshots. Both Illegal aliens were killed and the Cops drove up as they fell. No charges were filed and under the Castle Doctrine it was justified. Also under the Doctrine like my state you can't be sued in Civil Court if the shooting was justified.

Are the laws perfect, no they are not. Are they getting better, yes they are. I firmly believe that the 2A is starting to be understood by the majority as it was supposed be understood. Look at DC v Heller. In the past a court would have never made a ruling that you can't ban weapons because it violates our 2A rights. It's now heading to the SC.

Bottom line, we are much better off than we were 10 years ago. Is it perfect, nope and never will. Is the statement, "I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6" a good statement. I think so, however I won't ever brandish a weapon and if I ever have to pull it I will be pulling the trigger as soon as it's on target. I won't pull unless my life is in danger, or others, and feel the only way to stop the threat is to use deadly force. I won't pull and yell stop, I don't have to.

Even though things are not perfect I will continue carrying my weapon. Chances are I will never need it but if I do then I'll take my chances with the law. Hence; "I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6"

IMHO
 
Last edited:

DrDavidM

New member
While I would do almost anything to keep from going to prison. I would do ever more to save my or my wife's life. I am allowed by TN law to carry a firearm. I am also protected by TN law by the castle doctrine. If someone is truly threatening my life, and the other option is death, I will do what I have to do.
 

grizlybear45

New member
as for me i carry everday any and everywhere i go. my ccw says that i can, the law says that i can. if i feel the need to use my weapon to protect someone then i will. i will not let someone get hurt or killed because i'm afraid of the legal system. if that is the case then why have a ccw permit? we have to train and understand the law as best as we can. we have to act to the best of our ability. i personally could not live with myself having watched someone get hurt or killed knowing i stood there and did nothing, could"ve but chose not to.
 

Ektarr

Dedicated Infidel
Are the laws perfect, no they are not. Are they getting better, yes they are. I firmly believe that the 2A is starting to be understood by the majority as it was supposed be understood.

Totally agree, and it's more than evidenced by the announcement you can find HERE, outlining the recognition by no less restrictive a State than New Jersey of the fact that your individual Rights under 2A are sacrosanct, and cannot be involuntarily forfeited. If New Jersey has moved enough to get on board with this concept, there actually may be hope for the remainder of the country.

Uhhh... Temper this with the likleyhood that all of this may start changing dramatically after November!!
 
Last edited:

The Gunny

New member
Everyone who has a CCL has to make a decision. If you are not prepared to make the decision that is fine it is not for everyone to be sure. I will go one futher than that. Everyone has a set of criteria to decide to use leathal force. I have been thinking about this due to another thread on this site. I will use leathal force to protect me and mine. I might do so in defence of a uniformed LEO. In most other likely scenarios I do not choose to do so mainly for the possible legal ramifications. I would be a good witness, call the police and do the things that are prudent to defend myself and my family. I think given todays legal environment to do otherwise is to risk your home and financial stability. There are thousands of lawyers out there eager represent the families of those who were shot in criminal actions. I don't think I want to be putting my family or myself in that situation.

Some good advice I heard once is to remember there is a lawyer attached to every bullet.
 

HK4U

New member
I agree with the rest of you guys. If I wait for a perfect world with perfect laws to carry I will most likely be dead at the hands of a BG before that ever happens. The saying may be catchy but it is also correct. "I WOULD" rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6 and I sure would rather be tried than my family be dead.
 

flcracker

New member
My 'code to LIVE by' too...

"It's not always being fast or even accurate that counts, it's being willing. I found out early that most men, regardless of cause or need, aren't willing. They blink an eye or draw a breath before they pull the trigger--and I won't." JB Books

If you aren't completely ready to react in the same manner if that time ever comes...best leave it at home in the drawer.

Flc
 

Jay

New member
Indiana Code

SECTION 1. IC 35-41-3-2 IS AMENDED TO READ AS FOLLOWS [EFFECTIVE JULY 1, 2006]: Sec. 2. (a) A person is justified in using reasonable force against another person to protect the person or a third person from what the person reasonably believes to be the imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person:
(1) is justified in using deadly force; only and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;
if the person reasonably believes that that force is necessary to prevent serious bodily injury to the person or a third person or the commission of a forcible felony. No person in this state shall be placed in legal jeopardy of any kind whatsoever for protecting the person or a third person by reasonable means necessary.
 
E

echo_5

Guest
-my $.02

My family is the most important and loved thing in my life. If I percieved them to be in danger, I will protect them and explain myself later because.....'tis better to be judged by twelve than carried by six!
 
Know the law

i think the biggest issue here is our responsibility as permit holders to know the law and to run all different types of cenarios thru our heads constantly as we are out in public so that we know when it is appropriate to protect ourselves and when its better to help as many people out of harms way as we can. i don't see my permit as an extension of my manhood or the end all solve all to my problems. we are talking about the taking of a life here that is serious business not just legally but eternally too! in my classes i use another "catchy" phrase: there is a difference between whats legal and whats wise. we each need to revue our states laws at least monthly and know exactly what our rights are so that we are always making the right decision. Then we need to decide what our personal barriers are based on the parameters of the law. what events would cause me to actually need to be "judged by 12?" will i use any means to protect those that i love? Absolutely, that's why i applied for a permit when i was 21. Will i use my priviledges to protect others? it depends on the situation honestly. My gun cannot and will not solve all of my problems.
 

ArmySoldier

New member
Quite often actually! There are quite a few example on this site. Some of which you would probably think that were not justified. One case in mind is where a man call the police and told them that two people were breaking into his neighbors house. He told 911 that they were taking things out of the house and he had his shotgun and he was going to shoot the burglars. 911 telling him not to you next hear two gunshots. Both Illegal aliens were killed and the Cops drove up as they fell. No charges were filed and under the Castle Doctrine it was justified.
And had this guy not made racist comments on television afterwards it would have helped our cause more so.
 

toreskha

Titles are un-American.
I for one will not carry concealed until the laws are more in line with the "Good Samaritan doctrine" that shields a person from prosecution when trying to do the right thing.
Simply carrying a firearm does not compel you to use it. You can always take other actions, or simply do nothing. In many cases, the "Good Samaritan" laws actually require that people render assistance. Requiring that all CWP holders shoot at a threat would cause all kinds of problems.

I'm just not interested in fighting unless there is no other alternative, either for my own safety, or for the welfare of others. Obviously, one always trains for the worst-case scenario, which is a situation where fighting is the only option. I try to avoid/prevent trouble to begin with, and when I do encounter it, either talk my way out of it, or make a swift escape (and taking anyone else who wants to go).

I can't see any piece of property being worth death or injury to me; one lucky shot or thrust of a knife is all it takes. I can always get new possessions, and probably need new ones anyway. I'll draw and shoot if someone is threatening me with imminent death, but I'm not going to go with guns blazing and try to save my laptop or sunglasses. They can have it.
 
Last edited:

Red Hat

New member
And had this guy not made racist comments on television afterwards it would have helped our cause more so.
I must have missed that. I haven't heard of anything since the original story came out other than they still haven't filed any charges. Do you have a link I'd like to see what he said. Thanks...
 

ArmySoldier

New member
I must have missed that. I haven't heard of anything since the original story came out other than they still haven't filed any charges. Do you have a link I'd like to see what he said. Thanks...
I can't seem to find it right now. Perhaps I was mistaken. Watch this video. The poster of it is a moron, but its the full police recording. You can find a LOT of stuff about it if you google his name. As of mid December no charges filed. I am leaning a little towards Joe got a little trigger happy. Had he not called the police, or argued with him saying "I'm going to kill them", it would be different. I have no problem with what he did. But just fuel for the fire on the other side.
 
Last edited:

toreskha

Titles are un-American.
I can't seem to find it right now. Perhaps I was mistaken. Watch this video. The poster of it is a moron, but its the full police recording. You can find a LOT of stuff about it if you google his name. As of mid December no charges filed. I am leaning a little towards Joe got a little trigger happy. Had he not called the police, or argued with him saying "I'm going to kill them", it would be different. I have no problem with what he did. But just fuel for the fire on the other side.
Mr. Horn did a good job and displayed some fine shooting ability in being able to eliminate both before they could either escape or launch an effective counterattack. His only mistake was that he said too much to the 911 operator.

Again, I wouldn't have done the same - not out of concern for the burglars, but for myself. Horn's actions as a neighbor are commendable, though. He shouldn't be arrested - he should be recognized as a citizen trying to make a positive difference.
 
Last edited:

Puppy

New member
as for me i carry everday any and everywhere i go.


The comment:

"Katie Couric, while interviewing a Marine sniper, asked:
'What do you feel when you shoot a Terrorist?'
The Marine shrugged and replied,

'A slight recoil."

is great. I love it. But you do know that's it's B.S. I assume? That story has been circulating forever, probably even the civil war.

But it is funny!
 

Sgt. SIG

New member
Good topic Zelenka.

If nothing else, it's a good reminder to "count the cost" before using deadly force. In my state threat of death or substantial bodily harm must be imminent before it is lawful to use deadly force.

I carry all the time that I can do so legally. If, God forbid, I ever do have to use deadly force, it will be because there was simply no other choice. :sad2:
 

Members online

Forum statistics

Threads
49,136
Messages
621,671
Members
74,106
Latest member
Lindke238
Top