Road Rage + CCW


lukem

Administrator
Staff member
From Nevada Carry:


I thought this was a pretty good post by Janq on Defensive Carry referring to an article that was posted about a private citizen with a CCW that shot an undercover police officer. Now depending on the details he may have been justified. From reading that story it seems that he was. But I think this was a good post relating to road rage and people with CCW in general.

Click here for the story.

Quote
This is the second road rage with a CCW and cop story I've seen in two days (!).

We citizen CCW types must brush off road raging jerks, who just might maybe be a cop.
This scenario and the other from yesterday are exactly what the antis figured would occur with allowance of legalized concealed carry.

Cooler heads must prevail, that is a moral if not legal requirement toward being a concealed carry person.
Who the heck cares if the other guy gets through the light ahead of you...life is too short to sweat that and take/give bullets over it.

- Janq
This could have been avoided.
1) do not pull up to the driver side of the other car.
2) do not exchange harsh words
 

sonofsarge

New member
When someone looks for trouble, they're apt to find it. I like to remind the anti's that a handgun is always the last resort, never the first. The mind is always the first resort, never the last.
 

BluesStringer

Les Brers
My wife and I loaded up the truck and moved to Dixie from Redondo Beach, CA in 1992, just a month or so after the Rodney King riots settled down. Long before those riots though, and also long before CA Chiefs and Sheriffs trusted almost anyone with a CWP, people were shooting each other on the Harbor and Santa Monica Freeways fairly regularly. It got common-place enough that as early as '85, I had a bumper-sticker on my car that I bought from a street-vendor in Venice Beach that said, "COVER ME HONEY, I'M CHANGING LANES!" I know it was at least '85 because that's when I met my wife and she blew Diet Coke through her nose when she saw it! HA! That was our first date and she's been coverin' me ever since!

Anyhow......

This is the second road rage with a CCW and cop story I've seen in two days (!).

We citizen CCW types must brush off road raging jerks, who just might maybe be a cop.
This scenario and the other from yesterday are exactly what the antis figured would occur with allowance of legalized concealed carry.

Cooler heads must prevail, that is a moral if not legal requirement toward being a concealed carry person.
Who the heck cares if the other guy gets through the light ahead of you...life is too short to sweat that and take/give bullets over it.

- Janq
This take on the link doesn't make a lick of sense to me. The shooter said that the road-raging guy (the UC cop) got out of his car and approached his wife's side of the car with a gun pointed directly at her. He also said the UC never identified himself as a cop.

Point being, the situation described in that link is exactly the reason I carry, to be able to defend myself and my wife from nut-jobs with guns, whether they're also nut-jobs with a badge hidden somewhere on their person or not. I can't for the life of me see how this particular shooter could've "brushed off" this particular road-rager. I'm actually pretty proud of the guy for waiting until he was confronted with a weapon before using his. Not that the UC's car with a raging maniac in it couldn't also be construed as a deadly weapon, but in any case, I have no criticism of this shooter if it went down as described. I think he did the right thing.

Blues
 
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Ranger9

New member
My wife and I loaded up the truck and moved to Dixie from Redondo Beach, CA in 1992, just a month or so after the Rodney King riots settled down. Long before those riots though, and also long before CA Chiefs and Sheriffs trusted almost anyone with a CWP, people were shooting each other on the Harbor and Santa Monica Freeways fairly regularly. It got common-place enough that as early as '85, I had a bumper-sticker on my car that I bought from a street-vendor in Venice Beach that said, "COVER ME HONEY, I'M CHANGING LANES!" I know it was at least '85 because that's when I met my wife and she blew Diet Coke through her nose when she saw it! HA! That was our first date and she's been coverin' me ever since!

Anyhow......



This take on the link doesn't make a lick of sense to me. The shooter said that the road-raging guy (the UC cop) got out of his car and approached his wife's side of the car with a gun pointed directly at her. He also said the UC never identified himself as a cop.

Point being, the situation described in that link is exactly the reason I carry, to be able to defend myself and my wife from nut-jobs with guns, whether they're also nut-jobs with a badge hidden somewhere on their person or not. I can't for the life of me see how this particular shooter could've "brushed off" this particular road-rager. I'm actually pretty proud of the guy for waiting until he was confronted with a weapon before using his. Not that the UC's car with a raging maniac in it couldn't also be construed as a deadly weapon, but in any case, I have no criticism of this shooter if it went down as described. I think he did the right thing.

Blues
The only thing is the article said that the guns came out after there were angry words and gestures. It doesn't say if both drivers were guilty of the words and gestures, but I'm guessing that's the case. It's critical for someone who's carrying a CCH to avoid situations of this sort. If one of us should find it necessary to employ our handgun in a self defense situation, it would certainly be of benefit to be able to say that we did nothing to escalate the situation into becomming a gunfight.
 

BluesStringer

Les Brers
The only thing is the article said that the guns came out after there were angry words and gestures. It doesn't say if both drivers were guilty of the words and gestures, but I'm guessing that's the case.
Well, I wish the report weren't so ambiguous, but since it is, my benefit of the doubt goes the other way towards Mr. Treptow (the shooter). I don't have kids, but if my wife were in the car and I started yelling and flipping off someone for cutting us off or whatever, I'd have a fat lip and a broken finger before the guy saw or heard anything! Just seems to me that Treptow had multiple good reasons not to act out, only the least of which would be protecting his CWP. He did have two kids and his wife in the car. It doesn't say how old the kids are, but, from the limited information we have available to us in that link, it appears that it's at least two against one in the witness department, Mr. & Mrs. Treptow's word against the injured cop's. He was released without any charges being filed, so until that changes, he gets my benefit of the doubt.

For whatever it's worth, there's a video at that link now that I didn't see yesterday featuring Mr. Treptow. Can't tell much, but he does seem fairly soft-spoken and calm.

It's critical for someone who's carrying a CCH to avoid situations of this sort. If one of us should find it necessary to employ our handgun in a self defense situation, it would certainly be of benefit to be able to say that we did nothing to escalate the situation into becomming a gunfight.
So far, it appears that Mr. Treptow can say that. If his version of events is accurate, he only drew his weapon after one was drawn on his car and, according to him (and presumably his wife and maybe one or both kids), was pointed directly at his wife. Now, I suppose one could fault him for not turning off the road before getting up to the red light next to a guy who was already agitated with him, whether justified or not. OK, I'll go that far, he should've turned and avoided that close of a confrontation. But once you're looking down the barrel of a gun, or worse yet, seeing your wife looking down the barrel of a gun, you cease to think about what you could've done to avoid the whole situation, and start reacting according to your training. Again, from the limited info we have, I think he did the right thing. Not a great thing, but the right thing.

I still don't get the take from the first post in this thread though, where the poster says something to the effect of, "Who cares who gets through the light first?" It didn't have anything to do with "getting through the light first," it had to do with a split-second decision to defend one's wife and kids from a man with a gun already drawn, period.

Blues
 

Sgt. SIG

New member
Unfortunately, as much as it is our responsibility to de-escalate high emotion filled situations if possible, it is more so the responsibility of the officer. As a former LEO, I know that was how I was trained.

Both parties had a duty to disengage, just let it go. If the UC officer had probable cause, he should have requested the assistance of a marked unit and had the other subject stopped and cited. The other subject should have pulled over and called the police long before the guns came out.

I see it as two men who knew better letting things get out of control. :(
 

molonlabetn

New member
Seems to me that the officer is lucky to be alive after threatening and intimidating that family. I'm glad that the father was able to stop the rogue officer, there was no good reason for him to be out of his vehicle and approaching a vehicle full of children with his weapon drawn and pointed. I'd have done the same thing.

One should of course always keep their temper in check, but the real problem is the people who go beyond words and escalate violent actions when they are uncalled for. It is human nature to disagree and experience frustration... and communicate that frustration... (heaven forbid, in this PC culture :rolleyes:)
 

DrDavidM

New member
The question is why did it ever get this far? The answer is we are all human. If the story we read is true, we would have all probably done the same thing. If people could leave their tempers at home, this kind of thing wouldn't happen. If we could all remember everyone has an opinion and we may not always agree with it. Then just let it go. I know, it is hard to do sometimes.
 

rabywk

New member
This is an old story that has been out there for awhile. According to the reports the LEO pointed his gun first and the CCW returned the aggression. I have included a link that has the most research done on this so far.

This case has pretty much died and the shooter was never brought up on charges almost 3 months later. I have a feeling it was found as a good shoot and the press and department buried this story.

------------------------------
http://joelrosenberg.livejournal.com/204334.html
------------------------------
 

ishi

New member
No charges against the LEO for aggravated assault. I guess there's two sets of rules, for the LEOs and for the little people.
 

Carguy

New member
+1 with Ishi...you know there are 2 sets of rules! :rolleyes:

In Mass the legislature is debating making a conviction of Road Rage punishable by up to 2 and a half years in jail. This sentence make Road Rage a "disqualifier" for getting or keeping a license to carry at all! :eek:

If you carry then this will be an even bigger reason to keep a cool head in Mass just so you can keep your LTC.
 

doublenutz

New member
Road Rage is one thing, and I agree with the idea of- leaving the middle finger at home when you strap on a concealed weapon. However, an undercover officer, who does not identify his/herself as a LEO, that has deliberately unholstered his/her weapon to engage in the threat or possible action of deadly force is simply an ordinary person with a gun in the eyes of a man reacting to protect his family.

I could not imagine the look on a childs face when a man gets out of a vehicle and draws a weapon after an arguement with their father.

My father served as a New York City police officer for just over 20 years and never once had a reason strong enough to unholster his weapon while in uniform or as an undercover.

I believe this situation is an embarrassing shame for LEO's everywhere especially a LEO that ALLOWS his/herself to get into an episode of road rage to begin with.
 

1911 Bubba

New member
I agree

As a retired LEO, it's an embarassment when another cop does something like this. He should be fired, prosecuted and forbidden from owning a firearm. It's idiots like this that make a real cops job very hard.:mad:
 

Hoplites1234

New member
I'm cool when packing heat!

I have yet to let any traffic altercation get me involved in any of this type of incident since I started to carry. It's best to back off and stay in control of the situation as once you fire you enter a realm you don't want to find.
 

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