Spoke to a Judge... What is he talking about?


kohjor80

New member
So, I had an interesting conversation with a local district magistrate. He informed me that if I were to use my .40 cal Taurus for self defense (which is what it is for), with a full magazine of federal HydraShocks, I could be charged with manslaughter?

Does it matter how many rounds are in your self defense carry gun? Does it matter what type of ammunition it is? I am confused by the whole deal. Is he just telling me something so he can hear himself talk or what? I have never found any type of written rules to govern such a statement.

Anyone help me out? I am just trying to find the truth. Has anyone ever even heard of soemthing like this?

Also what are the rules for a properly permitted concealed carry weapon? are they to be unloaded when carried or is it ok to have a concealed carry cocked and locked?

Thanks for any input.

Jordie
 

PascalFleischman

New member
Your local judge is an idiot. If it were illegal, police wouldn't carry hollow points. They use them for a number of reasons, topmost being 1) They work....and 2) They work without over penetrating and causing collateral damage to bystanders or property. You are doing nobody any favors if you choose to carry with FMJ rounds. JHP are preferable, but nowhere near as effective as a hollow point.

There is no law, anywhere in the country (to my knowledge), that limits the amount of ammo you can have on your person. The more the merrier, I always say.

Perhaps he meant if you unloaded your magazine in someone, you could be charged with manslaughter. But then again, the point of the self defense law is to "negate the threat." If it takes 10 rounds to stop a bad guy, then pull the trigger until it goes "Click". Some prosecutor might get a wild hair with trying to charge you, but I think a decent lawyer could get it taken care of if you were justified in pulling the trigger.
 

PascalFleischman

New member
OH, and if you can carry, you can carry loaded, cocked, & locked. What's the point in having an unloaded gun on your hip? Might as well buy a pea shooter, otherwise.
 

kohjor80

New member
Thank you,
I agree, I usually carry a Full mag of hyrda shock with one in the chamber, but never really thought if it was ok, good, bad, or indifferent. I personally have my carry weapon on me at all times (except at school, obviously) but, in this town college kids are getting mugged and last week a guy was mugged and would not hand over his wallet so the guys grabbed him and started driving away holding him. He got pretty messed up. But there is a reason to carry. And I didn't understand why you could have a gun, a permit, and not have enough ammo?

But, thank you for the quick reply!

Jordie
 

kohjor80

New member
Also, the way i look at it,

My carry gun is like a seatbelt in a vehicle. You go out everyday, put on your seatbelt hoping that you never need to use it but when you get in that accident and survive because of it, You look back and say Shit at least i was prepared. So if someone has an excuse to protect themselves then they will be glad they are wearing their "Seat belt"
 

TheMan

New member
Does it matter how many rounds are in your self defense carry gun? Does it matter what type of ammunition it is?
Also what are the rules for a properly permitted concealed carry weapon? are they to be unloaded when carried or is it ok to have a concealed carry cocked and locked?

Thanks for any input.

Jordie

I've never head of those claims and question the assertion in it's entirety. The only thing that rings possibly true is if your state has laws regarding certain types of ammo (e.g. teflon coated 'cop killer' ammo).

I'm intimately familiar with the CCW and use of deadly force laws in two states in which I've lived and there's no stipulation about in which condition your CW is carried. I.E. however you want is fine.
 

farglov

New member
The Judge you spoke with is an idiot! My brother-in-law is a chief DA in Philly. (Where JHP's are illegal, I found this out on a visit form Florida.) He didn't have a problem with the JHP's, he just told me not shoot anyone with them. He thinks it's great that there are concealed carry laws. In some cases he feel it makes his job at prosicuting them easier because they can't testify. He told me it doesn't matter how many rounds the gun can hold, just how many rounds were fired and where did they go. The next time I visited Philly I changed my ammo to EFMJ, there not JHP's
 

Piece Corps

New member
As Bugs Bunny would say, "what an ultra-maroon!" When you use your gun for self-defense, the death of the BG is pretty much expected. Nobody shoots to wound, they shoot to stop. And death usually stops the threat.

And I always carry fully loaded with one in the pipe. Cocked and ready. You aren't going to have the time to rack in a round when someone is trying to kill you.
 
Last edited:

TAC

New member
Yes, I have heard that kind of statement before, in several States.

These statements ALWAYS came from either anti-gun people, or those who had listened to anti-gun people without verifying the information.
 

NavyLCDR

New member
There is an urban legend that a jury will convict a self-defense shooter based upon the "lethality" of the ammo used and whether or not that ammo was handloaded. It's total B.S. and there is not one case history that anyone has found where the type of ammo has been considered, as long as there is no specific prohibition to the type of ammo used, such as armor piercing, or in NJ - hollowpoints.
 

gdcleanfun

Banned
There is an urban legend that a jury will convict a self-defense shooter based upon the "lethality" of the ammo used and whether or not that ammo was handloaded. It's total B.S. and there is not one case history that anyone has found where the type of ammo has been considered, as long as there is no specific prohibition to the type of ammo used, such as armor piercing, or in NJ - hollowpoints.

Harold Fish of Arizona and the jury that convicted him would most probably disagree with you about the caliber of the ammunition used. Sad!
 
W

wolfhunter

Guest
Harold Fish of Arizona and the jury that convicted him would most probably disagree with you about the caliber of the ammunition used. Sad!

Thank you. I could remember the caliber, but his name was hiding from me. He used a big, mean, man-killing 10mm.
 

CAPTAIN MIKE

CAPTAIN MIKE
Personal Opinon - Not Reality

Classic case of someone using his position to propel an Agenda. This is personal opinion on his part - and shows clear ignorance of both the statutory and case law. Clearly an anti who is satisfied with personal ignorance.
 

rockwerks

New member
Classic case of someone using his position to propel an Agenda. This is personal opinion on his part - and shows clear ignorance of both the statutory and case law. Clearly an anti who is satisfied with personal ignorance.

In PA, Teflon coated bullets are a no no. for criminal use....but I dont think Id be the test case for concealed carry

18 Pa. C.S. §6121. Certain Bullets Prohibited.



(a) Offense defined. - It is unlawful for any person to possess, use or attempt to use a KTW teflon-coated bullet or other armor-piercing ammunition while committing or attempting to commit a crime of violence as defined in section 6102 (relating to defini*tions).



(b) Grading. - An offense under this section constitutes a felony of the third degree.



(c) Sentencing. - Any person who is convicted in any court of this Commonwealth of a crime of violence and who uses or carries, in the commission of that crime, a firearm loaded with KTW ammunition or any person who violates this section shall, in addition to the punishment provided for the commission of the crime, be sentenced to a term of imprisonment for not less than five years. Notwithstanding any other provision of law, the court shall not suspend the sentence of any person convicted of a crime subject to this subsection nor place him on probation nor shall the term of imprisonment run concurrently with any other term of imprisonment including that imposed for the crime in which the KTW ammunition was being used or carried. No person sentenced under this subsection shall be eligible for parole.



(d) Definition. - As used in this section the term “armor-pierc*ing ammunition” means ammunition which, when or if fired from any firearm as defined in section 6102 that is used or attempted to be used in violation of subsection (a) under the test procedure of the National Institute of Law Enforcement and Criminal Jus*tice Standard for the Ballistics Resistance of Police Body Armor promulgated December 1978, is determined to be capable of penetrating bullet-resistant apparel or body armor meeting the requirements of Type hA of Standard NILECJ-STD-0101.01 as formulated by the United States Department of Justice and published in December of 1978.
 

maybejim

Maybejim
Harold Fish of Arizona and the jury that convicted him would most probably disagree with you about the caliber of the ammunition used. Sad!

Wasn't that the guy who tried to hide from what happened? It seems to me that he made a whole bunch of stupid mistakes and the caliber of the gun had little to nothing to do with the conviction.
 

gdcleanfun

Banned
Wasn't that the guy who tried to hide from what happened? It seems to me that he made a whole bunch of stupid mistakes and the caliber of the gun had little to nothing to do with the conviction.

OMG, no, Mr. Fish did everything he could to cooperate with the authorities according to every one of the web sites I read. One juror even stated that her decision to convict was based on the caliber. Google "Harold Fish 10" and links abound.
 
W

wolfhunter

Guest
The two most prominent points in Mr. Fish's case were a question of which law applied, and the fact that he used such a large caliber. Since AZ had passed a new law, there has been discussion as to whether the new law applied, or the older one.
 

Stratus41298

New member
I think that in general, we can all agree that type of ammunition matters very little as long as that ammo is legal in your neck of the woods. Yes, there's a few odd ball cases running around but for the most part I can't see any issues arising from the ammo you use. I know here in CT they wouldn't dare hit you for that.
 

kohjor80

New member
Thanks everyone for all the replies. The ammo I use is legal and legally purchased locally. So from what I understand, Teflon coated are out but most others are fair game and there is no restriction on the quantity of rounds.

Jordie
 

New Threads

Members online

No members online now.

Forum statistics

Threads
49,133
Messages
621,655
Members
74,105
Latest member
Tactical Billy
Top