Training


daniel804

New member
Did you take the concealed carry class required by your state and do you go to the range once or twice a week and fire x amount of rounds How do you train after you received your permit or do you train with a professional what's your training regiment


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Eidolon

Alter Kocker
Y

Did you take the concealed carry class required by your state and do you go to the range once or twice a week and fire x amount of rounds How do you train after you received your permit or do you train with a professional what's your training regiment
Going to the range and firing X amount of rounds is practicing not training.

I was lucky enough to spend several years at a job that required periodic firearms training and qualifications with various weapons and allowed me to actually use what I was trained on in some real world force on force training.

Now I'm old and I live in a town with a low 5 digit population. My mission profile has changed, I'm pretty sure I'm never going to have to call for fire or close with and destroy the enemy by means of shock, maneuver and firepower again. So I concentrate on the basics. remaining calm(ish), getting the gun out and getting my first hits on target as accurately as I can.
 

WanderingSol07

New member
I got my firearms permit first, before ever touching a pistol. In Indiana I just had to pay and get finger printed to get the permit. I don't own a gun yet, but go to an indoor range weekly, rent a pistol, and shoot 100 rounds. Have taken 2 certified instructor courses, basic handgun and concealed carry legalities and issues. Now working on determining what I should buy. Will then shoot it weekly, at least 50 rounds, and will be taking intermediate shooting courses. This is the minimum I plan to do, shoot 50 weekly, and get training/refresher courses at least every six months. If I get my own gun this month I figure about 6 to 12 months before I would seriously consider carrying. One tends to dream/fantasize being in a self defense situation and what you would do, but in real life the situation is very messy and full of what ifs. Watching ASP videos on Youtube is a good example.
 

bofh

Banned
As Eidolon said, going to the range and firing X amount of rounds is practicing, not training. If you do that without having the training, it is nonsensical.

Training is when you attend a class where an instructor teaches you things. Practice is when you regularly repeat what you have learned to get better at it. When you go to the range and fire X amount of rounds, how do you know that what you re doing is correct? How do you know that you are doing the right exercises using the right procedures?

I highly recommend training with a professional firearms instructor, particularly with one that has a good reputation. Mandatory training that is required by the state is really just the beginning of a long road. Training via YouTube videos is not really recommended for a new shooter. An instructor will tell you what you are doing wrong and correct it. Your computer screen won't.

In a single-day defensive handgun training class, you will shoot 350-600 rounds, learn safe gun handling at all times, learn a lot of details about proper procedures, and learn to understand the proper mindset/attitude. For new shooters, it is highly recommended to take such a single-day defensive handgun training class and practice what has been learned for 6 months. Then, you can take the next level defensive handgun training class with the same school, and so on. It is a progression over time.

Lastly, there is not only live fire practice, but also dry practice:

 

PhillySoldier

New member
10 yrs in the infantry, 5 years as a correctional officer and I go to the range 1-3 times per week. No classes required for CC here in Pennsylvania.
 

Eidolon

Alter Kocker
I just read a thread on another forum in which the poster started a thread asking how to reduce a type three malfunction (AKA Double feed). IMO that's the kind of thing that needs to be covered in training and needs to be practiced until its second nature. I use MagPul Pmags when I take my GLock19 to the range because they cause issues and I randomly have to reduce a malfunction and "get back in the fight"
 

bofh

Banned
10 yrs in the infantry, 5 years as a correctional officer and I go to the range 1-3 times per week. No classes required for CC here in Pennsylvania.
Not to disrespect of your service, but you not only not answered the question of the OP but also implied that your military training and training as a correctional officer is sufficient. I regularly see active and retired members of the military and law enforcement who come to classes thinking very high of themselves about their skills. They very quickly realize that a significant amount of their past training was for that particular job and that they miss a significant amount of practical self defense skills. I have come to learn that training offered by civilian firearms schools now often supplements military and law enforcement training.
 

Eidolon

Alter Kocker
Not to disrespect of your service, but you not only not answered the question of the OP but also implied that your military training and training as a correctional officer is sufficient. I regularly see active and retired members of the military and law enforcement who come to classes thinking very high of themselves about their skills. They very quickly realize that a significant amount of their past training was for that particular job and that they miss a significant amount of practical self defense skills. I have come to learn that training offered by civilian firearms schools now often supplements military and law enforcement training.
Of course we can't forget that the military and LEO have likely ACTUALLY BEEN IN A FIGHT where the training wannabes haven't
 

bofh

Banned
Of course we can't forget that the military and LEO have likely ACTUALLY BEEN IN A FIGHT where the training wannabes haven't
Your reply just shows the ignorance I pointed out. Thanks.

I have received radiation during a nuclear accident. Does that make me a nuclear physicist, a nuclear plant operator, or a nuclear bomb expert? Being shot at and shooting back does not mean that you have the right training. It means you have life experience!
 

Eidolon

Alter Kocker
Your reply just shows the ignorance I pointed out. Thanks.

I have received radiation during a nuclear accident. Does that make me a nuclear physicist, a nuclear plant operator, or a nuclear bomb expert? Being shot at and shooting back does not mean that you have the right training. It means you have life experience!
No your reply displays ignorance. There are certain things you can only learn on a two way range. Primarily you learn how to perform when your life really does depend on it.
 

bofh

Banned
No your reply displays ignorance. There are certain things you can only learn on a two way range. Primarily you learn how to perform when your life really does depend on it.
Well, while I agree that they are certain things you only learn when you are put to the test in a deadly force situation, my original reply to PhillySoldier focused on the overconfidence that people have based on their prior service. Many service members and law enforcement officers never fired their weapon in combat or self defense.

We are talking about defensive handgun training for the civilian and non-LEO here. You know as well as I do what the quality of standard handgun training is in the military. You know as well as I do what the quality of standard handgun training is in law enforcement and that passing the FBI standard test is traditionally done on day 2 of a defensive handgun class.

As I said, I regularly see active and retired members of the military and law enforcement who come to classes thinking very high of themselves about their skills. They very quickly realize that a significant amount of their past training was for that particular job and that they miss a significant amount of practical self defense skills. I have come to learn that training offered by civilian firearms schools now often supplements military and law enforcement training.
 

Eidolon

Alter Kocker
Well, while I agree that they are certain things you only learn when you are put to the test in a deadly force situation, my original reply to PhillySoldier focused on the overconfidence that people have based on their prior service. Many service members and law enforcement officers never fired their weapon in combat or self defense.

We are talking about defensive handgun training for the civilian and non-LEO here. You know as well as I do what the quality of standard handgun training is in the military. You know as well as I do what the quality of standard handgun training is in law enforcement and that passing the FBI standard test is traditionally done on day 2 of a defensive handgun class.

As I said, I regularly see active and retired members of the military and law enforcement who come to classes thinking very high of themselves about their skills. They very quickly realize that a significant amount of their past training was for that particular job and that they miss a significant amount of practical self defense skills. I have come to learn that training offered by civilian firearms schools now often supplements military and law enforcement training.
I think the truth is somewhere in the middle
 

Reba

Sinner saved by grace
Well, while I agree that they are certain things you only learn when you are put to the test in a deadly force situation, my original reply to PhillySoldier focused on the overconfidence that people have based on their prior service. Many service members and law enforcement officers never fired their weapon in combat or self defense....
That's true about military service members.
 

niceshootintex

New member
That's true about military service members.
I concur. I learned a lot more about handguns as SD firearms after I left the military. Its not like riding a bike. Use the training and acquired skills or lose them. Getting older means understanding your limitations also.
I was actually very familiar with shotguns and long guns years before I joined.

The Place To Be
 

PhillySoldier

New member
How do you find the time to go to the range so often
Its not bad. I belong to an outdoor club and am there by 9am on Sat & Sunday mornings. Also I work earlier hours during the week and am home by 3pm so will occasionally go during the week after work. My sessions arent long and usually only there for about an hour.
 

PhillySoldier

New member
Been trying to not get into this debate here. First, I only mentioned what my experience was not that its all that is needed. Id be very interested in taking any type of classes around me even if it was remedial and would also like to at least get into observing competition shooting if I could ever find anything near me. Yes I would agree most military and LEO only shoot enough to stay qualified and isnt part of there particular job. I was infantry and would say we trained a wee bit more. Id also say that training has been put to much practical use while deployed. Cocky/overconfident? Definitely (im a grunt)! Ive been in shootouts, knife fights, self defense trials etc so yes Im confident in what I can do and accepting that the results may not always be positive. But overall and again Ive never said thats all that was needed to be learned. There's always more to learn as well as trying to continually improve one's skills.
 

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