Would you buy an unregistered gun?


iteclab

iteclab
For me, YES! Personally, I think that is the best kind of gun to buy. I just wished I knew where to get them.

When Obama's (and Kennedy's) Health Care plan goes through, we may have to pay more if we have guns in the home. And they already know, if you have registered guns. If you think you won't have to pay, think again. Remember the payroll deduction to the IRS at work? Your employer will be required to deduct the additional charge from your paycheck. Retired? They will stop your social security check to pay it.

So, you will have to give up your registered guns -- or starve. You still have the right to have guns. You will just have to pay a lot more for your government insurance. Yes, you will have government medical insurance because your employer isn't going to pay for it any more since you can get it for 'free' from the government. And Obama and his ilk will charge you whatever they want. If you have guns, you will just have to pay a lot more for your portion. Rumor has it about $10,000 per year. And it will be deducted from your paycheck.

So, if you want protection, the only guns you will keep will be the ones they don't know about. Somehow, you have to avoid registration.

Without giving away your secrets, what should we do? Private trades? Travel to other states without registration? Where would that be?

I'm in Clark County, Nevada. We have to register all new ones we buy.
 

CathyInBlue

Tool Maker
Well, there's state registration and there's federal registration. Indiana has voluntary state registration. No one volunteers. It requires an affirmative act on the part of the buyer to initiate a government registration of gun ownership of gun G by owner O. No one ever bothers.

Otherwise, there's ATF Form 4473 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia . They have these for every sale that happened through a federally licensed gun dealer. When they start walking through their file cabinets full of 4473s and they come to yours, if you can't produce the associated firearm, you'd better be able to give them name, phone, address, and SSN of the person you sold it to, or else they'll just spitefully TRIPLE your federal healthcare bill.
 

wayneco

New member
Don't live in Clark County, NV. You are in the only county in NV that requires blue cards. Move to Pahrump!

I'm in Washoe County, fill out the 4473 and you're out the door up here.
 

spf159753

New member
I have never needed to register any firearm,that I have purchased.
Some of my stuff was obtained many years ago,and there probably is no record of sale by now.
How many years do they keep sales records by law????
 

hiwall

New member
They have used form 4473 since 1968 and they still have everyone that was ever filled out.
 

FN1910

New member
What do you mean by registered? As far as I know I don't have any guns that are registered. In fact I have one that can't be registered as it doesn't have a serial number on it, never had one. :no:
 

Bohemian

New member
Clark County, Nevada is the only County in the entire State of Nevada that has a stinking mandatory HANDGUN registration requirement (AKA: Blue Card)

There is no long gun registration requirement in Nevada...

But whether anybody admits to it or not, if you have ever filed out a BATFE Form 4473, you can bet you are in a federal and or state government database, in the interest of public safety and or common sense firearm oversight as the gun grabbers typically use as talking points...

Thanks to things such as the Usurper's first executive order, made hours after he took his oath, (Unprecedented) you can pretty much count on not knowing anything he or his butt buddy Attorney General and fellow gun grabber extraordinaire Eric Holder does not think you need to know...
Including Government Watch Lists, Any tangible proof that the Usurper is eligible to hold the very position he usurped, etc...
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/ExecutiveOrderPresidentialRecords/
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/ExecutiveOrder-EthicsCommitments/

This is something the State Legislature grandfathered in back in 2007 when they passed their preemption law, which although eliminated some of the more foolish laws in Boulder City and the City of North Las Vegas...

It left a few that I can think of off the top of my head that Nevadans need to push for repeal...

  1. Blue Card/Hand Gun Registration Repeal.
  2. Repeal compliance with Brady Bill, already ruled Unconstitutional by the U.S. Supreme Court.
  3. Repeal NICS checks, fees etc.
  4. Repeal any waiting periods.
  5. Repeal any agreement to BATFE Form 4473 compliance.
  6. Repeal any agreement to comply with any BATFE/Congressional directives that are in Conflict with the 2nd and 10th Amendments... (10th Amendment Initiative, to get the Federal Government out of our private business). "SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED" is pretty fricking clear, butt the hell out of our unalienable rights...
  7. Repeal the State-Wide law prohibiting loaded rifles and or shotguns from being carried in any vehicle, other then Law-Enforcement, and or Government employees.
  8. Repeal any requirement for a Concealed or other Carry Permit to carry open or concealed...
The Second Amendment; "IT'S A RIGHT NOT A PRIVILEGE"
 

Red Hat

New member
They have used form 4473 since 1968 and they still have everyone that was ever filled out.

Only the dealer has the 4473 and it's not sent to the ATF. They have to keep it for 20 years. If a business closes they turn over all 4473's and bound books on hand . These are the only forms the ATF has. One exception is if the dealer is using the ATF online forms then they get these also. So they don't have all forms filled out since 1968.
 

Bohemian

New member
Only the dealer has the 4473 and it's not sent to the ATF. They have to keep it for 20 years. If a business closes they turn over all 4473's and bound books on hand . These are the only forms the ATF has. One exception is if the dealer is using the ATF online forms then they get these also. So they don't have all forms filled out since 1968.

IF that is the case how come the BATFE routinely fines dealers for typo's, missing info, abbreviations, etc., on Form 4473?

I can tell you from personal experience, a FFL who is a friend of mine told me about 6 months ago he was fined 250 bucks for a missing check box entry on a 4473 that I filled out...

Red's Trading Post is in a major lawsuit against the BATFE for clerical errors on form 4473's... that the BATFE is trying to shut them down over...

Red's is one of the oldest FFL's in the country...

http://hubpages.com/hub/Bought-Any-Guns-Lately
 

Avail

Doesn't like Kool-Aid
I'm in Clark County, Nevada. We have to register all new ones we buy.

Sucks doesn't it, I hate having to carry those stupid things with me :(

I personally like having a few unregistered handguns available 'just in case'. Too bad that we would be breaking the law if we did that here in Clark County.
 
Love that Washoe!

Don't live in Clark County, NV. You are in the only county in NV that requires blue cards. Move to Pahrump!

I'm in Washoe County, fill out the 4473 and you're out the door up here.

I would totally move to Washoe county just because of "Reno 911"! :sarcastic:

I think that Montana may have the right idea. No BATF on guns manufactured, sold, and used only in Montana.
:tongue:
 

tattedupboy

Thank God I'm alive!
I suppose that the only people who bought their guns at gun shows or in private transfers (in states that don't require these transactions to be done through an FFL) won't have to worry.
 

Ceicei

New member
I suppose that the only people who bought their guns at gun shows or in private transfers (in states that don't require these transactions to be done through an FFL) won't have to worry.

True. I saw a person buying a GSG MP5, cash only, no forms private sale at a recent gun show. Man, was I jealous! I didn't have enough money at the time to get it. Security at the door did have to verbally verify with the buyer and seller to make sure it was a legitimate sale before they would allow the buyer to leave with it.

- Ceicei
 

chroode

New member
Talk to any elderly people you are familiar with. Most of the guns that have no record comes from people who bought them ages ago.
 

Bohemian

New member
Yep, its pretty clear that the NFA, 1968 GCA, 1986 FOPA, Brady Bill(s) ad nauseam, NICS Improvement Act of 2007, 16th Amendment, IRS, BATFE, et. al. ...

Are all clear infringements of the preexisting, unalienable rights reaffirmed and protected by the U.S. Constitution and Second Amendments...

One of these days the 90 million plus known firearm owners of 270 million plus known firearms in this country are going to need to actually realize that "We The People" are the ones with the power, and not "We The Sheeple" are at the mercy and good graces of the Federal, State, County and other municipalities governments...

Yet we still have a unbelievable amount of sheeple (those that voted for and continue to support him) that actually believe in the tripe that the Usurper has a long history of spewing...

Such as this paraphrase of preposterous treasonous statements by the Usurper Obama...

"The U.S. suffers from a fundamentally flawed constitution" - The Usurper Obama:
Obama rips U.S. Constitution

"If we do nothing, we can only say we did nothing" - George Washington

IF "We The Sheeple" continue to allow Constitutional and Second Amendment Infringements to occur and allow existing ones to continue, (such as the IRS, BATFE, etc.) then just like the LDS has digitized centuries of genealogical data, the IRS and BATFE most certainly will if they have not already digitize all available firearm transaction data since the 1934 NFA, a mere 75 years...
and or since the 1968 GCA, a minuscule 40 years...

It does not take a individual with a degree in Computer Science to figure out how simple an effort it would be to find that machine gun grandpa brought home from WW1 or WWII, or other firearm obtained in any other manner that the serial number had a tax stamp associated with it, and or NICS (BATFE Form 4473) check was done on purchaser, gun registration, ccw permit, etc., and gave to one of his children, grandchildren, etc.,...

Zip Plus Four... The Address To Your Front Door...

AKA: Citizen Relocation Code... may not be just satire...
:)
 

iteclab

iteclab
Yeah, I think a few 'effective' ones will be necessary. No paper trail. We know the enemy is coming. We just don't know from which direction. Don't let your guard down.
 

Red Hat

New member
IF that is the case how come the BATFE routinely fines dealers for typo's, missing info, abbreviations, etc., on Form 4473?

I can tell you from personal experience, a FFL who is a friend of mine told me about 6 months ago he was fined 250 bucks for a missing check box entry on a 4473 that I filled out...

Red's Trading Post is in a major lawsuit against the BATFE for clerical errors on form 4473's... that the BATFE is trying to shut them down over...

Red's is one of the oldest FFL's in the country...

Bought Any Guns Lately?

They do a dealer inspection a couple times a year. They inspect the forms to make sure that they have been filled out correctly. They do not take any of the forms. They remain with the dealer.
 

Bohemian

New member
They do a dealer inspection a couple times a year. They inspect the forms to make sure that they have been filled out correctly. They do not take any of the forms. They remain with the dealer.

its a lot more then a couple times a year, more like a couple of random times a month at minimum...

And you should re-read the following if you still think they don't know what firearms are at your zip+4
NRA-ILA :: In Border States, BATFE Asks: "May We See Your Guns?"
 

Red Hat

New member
its a lot more then a couple times a year, more like a couple of random times a month at minimum...

And you should re-read the following if you still think they don't know what firearms are at your zip+4
NRA-ILA :: In Border States, BATFE Asks: "May We See Your Guns?"

There's no way the ATF could randomly check a dealer a couple times a month unless they have been violation of record keeping and they are doing follow ups. There's not enough ATF agents to go around to do that many checks on dealers.

This tells it all, from the article you posted.
For example, when BATFE traces a gun seized after use in a crime, manufacturers' and dealers' records will normally lead to the first retail buyer of that gun, and investigators will have to interview the buyer to find out how the gun ended up in criminal hands. But in other cases, the questioning may simply be based on information in dealers' records, with agents trying to "profile" potentially suspicious purchases.
 

Bohemian

New member
There's no way the ATF could randomly check a dealer a couple times a month unless they have been violation of record keeping and they are doing follow ups. There's not enough ATF agents to go around to do that many checks on dealers.

This tells it all, from the article you posted.

you are making a lot of uninformed assumptions...

Thanks to the BATFE and the Brady Bunch there are more employees of the BATFE then there are current FFL holders in the U.S... and that was two years ago...

BATFE firearms trace database...

To execute its mission of enforcing federal firearms laws,
ATF conducts firearms traces for federal, state, local,
and tribal law enforcement agencies. 18 U.S.C. sect. 923.
See also Library of Congress, Congressional Research Service,
Gun Control: Statutory Disclosure Limitations on ATF Firearms
Trace Data and Multiple Handgun Sales Reports, No. RS22458 (July 20, 2007), at 2.
ATF maintains a Firearms Trace System database...

Additionally, they frequently photocopy, video tape, and transcribe form 4473 information...

Moreover FFL dealers around the country are reporting unusual amounts of random BATFE form 4473 inspections and requests...

Bloomberg Under Fire From Gun Groups - HUMAN EVENTS
GOF: When The BATF Pays A Visit
GunCite - Gun Control: gun registration;firearm registration
When Must the Government  Disclose Gun Owners' Names and Addresses?
U.S. GAO - B-309704, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives--Words of Futurity in Fiscal Year 2006 Appropriations Act, August 28, 2007
10/08 BATFE Adds Theft To Its Crimes
Rein in BATFE abuses; stop their firearms registration database | Red Pills
ATF abuse
More ATF abuse
The BATFE is creating a firearms ownership registry; this is blatantly illegal! | Red Pills
GOA Comments on the BATF
The BATFE is creating a firearms ownership registry; this is blatantly illegal! | Red Pills
Louisiana Sportsman-Registration not a fact of gun purchase
BATF Conducts House by House Gun Searches | DarkGovernment
NRA-ILA :: The "Tiahrt Amendment" on Firearms Traces: Protecting Gun Owners' Privacy and Law Enforcement Safety
 

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