You don't HAVE to shoot


wuzfuz

New member
I read part of an article by Massad Ayoob where he stated that most situations involving firearms are resolved with never a shot being fired. Once, in Casa Grande, AZ, my wife and I went to the movies one night. As we were going to our car, three figures came out of the night (poor lighting) and requested money. One was carrying a golf club, I believe it was a driver, one had a bicycle chain, and the other had a broken or sawed off pool cue. I eased my compact .45 out and held it down alongside my leg. I knew they could see it from the change in their expressions. I calmly said, "We aren't going to hurt one another now, are we?" I quess it was the calm, calculated way I said it that convinced them to remember a previous appointment they just thought up. Seeing I was dedicated to protecting myself and my wife, they decided it wasnlt worth the risk.
 

response

As you see every night on the Discovery Channel, the lion only goes after the wounded member of the herd. BG's are no different - it all comes down to posture and attitude. 90% of the time you won't have to shoot.
 

HK4U

New member
You are right. Sometimes just the presence of the firearm can make the BG change his mind. Most criminals are cowards by nature. Just make sure that you are prepared to shoot if you have to just in case the next ones are not so easily persuaded. Anyway glad everything came out o.k.
 
I read part of an article by Massad Ayoob where he stated that most situations involving firearms are resolved with never a shot being fired. Once, in Casa Grande, AZ, my wife and I went to the movies one night. As we were going to our car, three figures came out of the night (poor lighting) and requested money. One was carrying a golf club, I believe it was a driver, one had a bicycle chain, and the other had a broken or sawed off pool cue. I eased my compact .45 out and held it down alongside my leg. I knew they could see it from the change in their expressions. I calmly said, "We aren't going to hurt one another now, are we?" I quess it was the calm, calculated way I said it that convinced them to remember a previous appointment they just thought up. Seeing I was dedicated to protecting myself and my wife, they decided it wasnlt worth the risk.

Glad the situation ended without shots being fired. Hope you made a call to 911 to cover your "6". We don't want the three of them making the first call and giving LE a different story.

Great job. Glad to see that armed citizens are able to protect themselves.



gf
 

toreskha

Titles are un-American.
Most common street thugs are cowards by nature, which is why they're too pathetic to get a job and instead prey on people who actually try to do something in life.
 

tattedupboy

Thank God I'm alive!
As you see every night on the Discovery Channel, the lion only goes after the wounded member of the herd. BG's are no different - it all comes down to posture and attitude. 90% of the time you won't have to shoot.

That's what the Bradys don't seem to understand. Their statistics on defensive firearm uses only include those in which the bad guy is killed, which is usually fewer than 300 per year. They apparently don't understand that law abiding citizens use them first for the deterrent effect, and secondly, for shooting.
 

Scarecrow

New member
which is why carrying concealed can be a really good thing.. if a bad guy knows that some one is armed.. they will move to some one else who they know is not. keep them guessing. glad it turned out the way it did.
 

Austin

New member
That is where we differ.

If I pull my weapon to defend my wife and I there will be shots fired. At that point diplomacy is dead and they are next.

I am sure that I am going to take heat for that post, but that is my 2 cents worth.
 
That is where we differ.

If I pull my weapon to defend my wife and I there will be shots fired. At that point diplomacy is dead and they are next.

I am sure that I am going to take heat for that post, but that is my 2 cents worth.


From what I've read, it looks like the situation was a few seconds away from "shots fired". I'm glad that the OP didn't have to fire any shots. I wasn't there , but had I been I'm sure I would have handled things a little differently.

I do STRONGLY recommend that anytime you draw your firearm in self-defense, that YOU are the first one to call 911 and let the police know. This way when 3 thugs end up at the local PD saying that "a many pulled a gun on us in a parking lot" the police would have already heard your side of the story.

If I this were to have happened here in PRHI and I was on my own property with my firearms, the thugs could claim that I "brandished" a firearm. The law states that I can use my firearm to STOP an attack, not PREVENT one.

Remember IANAL (I Am Not A Lawyer), don't play one on television. This isn't "legal advice". Consult a competent attorney for any "legal advice".


gf
 

Austin

New member
It also helps if there is only one story......

Now given, my point of view on this is probably a little different than most as I am an officer in a state correctional facility (max, med, and min security), and have a couple of years of LE experience from the street.

(hoping that I don't sound too trigger happy or homicidal)
 
It also helps if there is only one story......

Now given, my point of view on this is probably a little different than most as I am an officer in a state correctional facility (max, med, and min security), and have a couple of years of LE experience from the street.

(hoping that I don't sound too trigger happy or homicidal)


Sounds like we've both had similar training. I was trained that the only time that I draw my firearm was when it needed to be discharged. Now if some guy swings on me, I take cover and draw my firearm and the guy surrenders in the process, then this is a very unique situation where I would have drawn my firearm and not discharged it.

You're right about the "one story" situation. As I stated earlier, I would have probably handled the situation a little different.

With that said, keep in mind that there are a lot of civilians who haven't had the kind of training that some of us have had. These folks should become very familiar with the laws of the various jurisdictions where they are planning on carrying their firearms. What's legal "back home" can land you in jail in a different city.



gf
 

Austin

New member
You make some very good points GLOCK FAN, you are allright.

You really cannot go wrong with your advice on this matter.
 

kwo51

New member
In one of Mass books he told of a man that drew his gun and the bad guys left. Only to call the police and tell them a man had a gun pointed at them.This brings up reporting the event. If you have to draw it may be good to report it.:crazy_pilot:
 

dancingwolf

New member
In one of Mass books he told of a man that drew his gun and the bad guys left. Only to call the police and tell them a man had a gun pointed at them.This brings up reporting the event. If you have to draw it may be good to report it.:crazy_pilot:

I agree. Also, those sickos most probably went to find some poor soul who wasn't armed and otherwise couldn't defend himself, so reporting creeps like theae to the police may prevent further crime.

As for drawing down on someone, my weapon leaves its holster because I've made up my mind that my life is in immediate danger and the threat is real leaving me NO ALTERNATIVE but to fire to neutralize that threat. Drawing your weapon with the idea that just doing so will remove the threat may work in some situations, but I believe not firing while holding on to that hope can get you killed.

A better solution, IMHO, would be to place your hand on your weapon, openly showing this to the threat. If he leaves, fine. But at this point, your mind should be in condition red and you should have already made up your mind to draw and shoot should the aggressor trip the "line in the sand" that you've mentally drawn, such as, "if he continues advancing, I will draw and shoot."
 

Landor

New member
Massad Ayoob has had more training them all of us together. Not really but he knows how to handle a situation. If I had three guys approach me and all three were carrying potential weapons that were out of place for the situation my gun would not be at my side. It would be pointing at one of them.

Odds are these guys have records and they were carrying weapons even though they might say they did not threaten you if they were still alive that is.

Sorry, better safe then sorry.
 

MP3Mogul

New member
That is where we differ.

If I pull my weapon to defend my wife and I there will be shots fired. At that point diplomacy is dead and they are next.

I am sure that I am going to take heat for that post, but that is my 2 cents worth.

+1

If I made the decision to draw, I have already made the decision to fire. All 3 would be dead.
 

tattedupboy

Thank God I'm alive!
+1

If I made the decision to draw, I have already made the decision to fire. All 3 would be dead.

Not necessarily so for me. In deciding to draw you still must make a split-second decision on whether deadly force is warranted. You're saying that you can't possibly conceive of any scenario in which merely brandishing the weapon would stop the threat?
 

Slade797

New member
Sometimes you don't even have to show your steel.

Last time I had a run-in, a local idiot stood in front of me, telling me how he was gonna knock my head off. I had my hand on my pistol, in a pocket holster. I looked him in the eye and said, "Take your best shot." He looked at me, looked at where my hand was, and walked back to his car.
 

tattedupboy

Thank God I'm alive!
Sometimes you don't even have to show your steel.

Last time I had a run-in, a local idiot stood in front of me, telling me how he was gonna knock my head off. I had my hand on my pistol, in a pocket holster. I looked him in the eye and said, "Take your best shot." He looked at me, looked at where my hand was, and walked back to his car.

I rest my case. Not saying that I don't have the guts to shoot someone, but it is wise to to assess the situation to determine if deadly force is warranted. Most BGs, while stupid, aren't crazy. If they know someone has a gun (whether through it being brandished or someone putting their hand where their gun is) they won't mess with them because they don't want to get shot.
 
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Austin

New member
I rest my case. Not saying that I don't have the guts to shoot someone, but it is wise to to assess the situation to determine if deadly force is warranted. Most BGs, while stupid, aren't crazy. If they know someone has a gun (whether through it being brandished or someone putting their hand where their gun is) they won't mess with them because they don't want to get shot.


To me this seems like proposing a quick-draw showdown.
 

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