Shipping a handgun to myself in another state - Page 2
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Thread: Shipping a handgun to myself in another state

  1. #11
    Thanks for your later example as well as the ATF Q&A, NavyLT. I thought Deadeye Brian had it wrong about mailing a handgun to yourself but wasn't absolutely sure since he's a gunsmith and FFL holder. I don't know why the ATF in his state of Kansas would be any different than any other state since we're talking federal regulations here.

    In a few cases I've had to send handguns back to the manufacturer for rework. They merely forwarded a shipping label and I sent via UPS with no need to declare the contents. No FFL requirements at all. And the manufacturers returned the handguns directly to my house with no FFL involvement whatsoever. Except for the one time when the frame was scrapped and I got one back with a new serial number. Then we had to go through the FFL transfer routine.

    Maybe there's a difference though between a gunsmith and a gun manufacturer although the lines would be pretty blurry when talking custom makers.


    3X PM

  2.   
  3. Quote Originally Posted by Felix View Post
    Thanks for your later example as well as the ATF Q&A, NavyLT. I thought Deadeye Brian had it wrong about mailing a handgun to yourself but wasn't absolutely sure since he's a gunsmith and FFL holder. I don't know why the ATF in his state of Kansas would be any different than any other state since we're talking federal regulations here.
    Just so we make sure we are on the same page:

    1. It is lawful for a person to ship a handgun to himself in another state via UPS or FEDEX. Now, one of those company's policies won't allow it, even though the law does, I just can't remember which. Their company policy also requires the handgun to go overnight.

    2. It is lawful for a person to mail via USPS or ship via UPS or FEDEX a rifle to themselves in another state. Again company policies apply, but the overnight company policy only applies to handguns.

    Quote Originally Posted by Felix View Post
    In a few cases I've had to send handguns back to the manufacturer for rework. They merely forwarded a shipping label and I sent via UPS with no need to declare the contents. No FFL requirements at all. And the manufacturers returned the handguns directly to my house with no FFL involvement whatsoever. Except for the one time when the frame was scrapped and I got one back with a new serial number. Then we had to go through the FFL transfer routine.
    The bold part above did NOT require an FFL transfer. Page 3 of:
    http://www.atf.gov/publications/down...-p-5300-15.pdf

    Exceptions to the ATF Form 4473 Requirement:
    You are not required to obtain a Form 4473 for the following sales and other transfers:

    4. Transfer of a replacement firearm of the same kind and type to the person from whom a firearm was received.
    This exception is codified in 27 CFR 478.124:

    478.124 Firearms transaction record.
    (a) A licensed importer, licensed manufacturer,
    or licensed dealer shall not sell or
    otherwise dispose, temporarily or permanently,
    of any firearm to any person, other
    than another licensee, unless the licensee
    records the transaction on a firearms
    transaction record, Form 4473: Provided,
    That a firearms transaction record, Form
    4473, shall not be required to record the
    disposition made of a firearm delivered to
    a licensee for the sole purpose of repair or
    customizing when such firearm or a replacement
    firearm
    is returned to the person
    from whom received.
    Maybe there's a difference though between a gunsmith and a gun manufacturer although the lines would be pretty blurry when talking custom makers.
    Nope. Notice the first line of 27 CFR 478.11... it applies to all types of FFLs except for the collector (C&R license).

    Many times FFLs will be overly cautious about what they think the laws are because they are afraid of being questioned about something during an audit of their records.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  4. #13
    Wow, thanks again, NavyLT. Your online research skills are legendary around here and much appreciated.

    So even the semi-custom 1911 manufacturer I referenced had it wrong! An unneeded FFL transfer fee incurred. I never questioned the process from someone who certainly should have known the regs. It seemed believable (to me at least) that a new serial number would require a transfer via an FFL holder in my state. I'll be smarter if there's ever a next time.


    3X PM

  5. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Arkansas City Ks
    Posts
    11

    Unhappy weapons transfer

    Navy LT, you are just about 99.9% correct when it comes to FFL holders/Gunsmiths. When one is randomly picked for a audit we must ensure every I is dotted and evert T crossed so we do take the regs. to the extremme. Just about everything I do involves the handling of recordable parts or weapons. Fedex is the only company my wholesalers ship to me with and is the only Co. I ship with. All searilized parts must be logged in our bound books and disposistions noted: ie, sent to manf., sent to another FFL. When it comes to my gunsmithing work if I am not going to be able to return their weapon back to them in a resonable amount of time my ATF inspector advises me to record the firearm in my bound book. There is no need for a 4473 if the " original " owner comes to retreive their weapon. When shipping a handgun as a business I must use a FFL. My business knowledge versus the private sector as you have so diligently proved is lacking on my part. I just wanted to make sure nothing "bad" occured using the "business approach" when I should have been quoting the public sector regs. Thanks for broadening my narrow vision and do apologize if I created to much confusion. Brian:

  6. Being a maintenance officer in the Navy, I am also subject to audits and inspections regarding aircraft maintenance records. So, believe me, I know all those rules: if it isn't documented, it didn't happen, etc. I think a major key to success, at least as far as aviation maintenance inspections go, is to have a good working relationship with the inspectors. Calling them in between inspections for advice/clarification. Asking about potential pitfalls/problem areas to look for, etc.

    That way everybody's knowledge is expanded, hopefully there won't be any "oh crap" moments during the audits, and the inspectors see that you have a desire to comply.

    Now.... the ATF may be a totally different animal, but that's the way it works with the aviation maintenance inspectors anyway.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  7. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    I think a major key to success, at least as far as aviation maintenance inspections go, is to have a good working relationship with the inspectors. Calling them in between inspections for advice/clarification. Asking about potential pitfalls/problem areas to look for, etc...

    Now.... the ATF may be a totally different animal, but that's the way it works with the aviation maintenance inspectors anyway.
    Yeah, the ATF has been known to deliberatly give FFL holders erronious information, and then turn around and sanction the FFL holder for not following the law. The ATF's excuse for this type of behavior is that the FFL, not the ATF, is supposed to know all the arcane and obscure regulations and follow them to the letter. It's OK for the ATF to screw up, even if they did it intentionally. It's not OK for the FFL holders to screw up, even if they acted in good faith.

  8. I am also an FFL

    Zander's, davidsons, green supply, sports south, and others ship UPS. Handguns must go Next Day Air. Please be sure you are correct when answering questions. This show up on google! It is PERFECTLY legal to ship a gun to yourself in another state to use for sporting or hunting. UNLESS that firearm is restricted IN THE RECEIVING STATE! I gave this exact information to an FFL in the keys and they were completely unaware you can legally do this. It's your gun, you've already passed the background check. Why could you not ship it to yourself. You could bring it with you but some states you travel through (if driving) could have laws against it. Ship them, it's the easiest way I think. I ship mine when I travel. (And no owning an FFL gives me no extra rights or privileges for my firearms I do a 4473 like everyone else) Just be sure to CHECK THE LAWS IN THE RECIEVING STATE FIRST!

    Quote Originally Posted by deadeye View Post
    Navy LT, you are just about 99.9% correct when it comes to FFL holders/Gunsmiths. When one is randomly picked for a audit we must ensure every I is dotted and evert T crossed so we do take the regs. to the extremme. Just about everything I do involves the handling of recordable parts or weapons. Fedex is the only company my wholesalers ship to me with and is the only Co. I ship with. All searilized parts must be logged in our bound books and disposistions noted: ie, sent to manf., sent to another FFL. When it comes to my gunsmithing work if I am not going to be able to return their weapon back to them in a resonable amount of time my ATF inspector advises me to record the firearm in my bound book. There is no need for a 4473 if the " original " owner comes to retreive their weapon. When shipping a handgun as a business I must use a FFL. My business knowledge versus the private sector as you have so diligently proved is lacking on my part. I just wanted to make sure nothing "bad" occured using the "business approach" when I should have been quoting the public sector regs. Thanks for broadening my narrow vision and do apologize if I created to much confusion. Brian:

  9. Quote Originally Posted by DickB View Post
    I'm licensed in my home state of Florida and have an unlimited Class A non resident license in my previously home state of Mass. Can I ship a handgun in care of myself to the home of a friend in Mass and then from their back to myself here in Florida at the end of my visit.

    It seems like a lot of work but I'm just concerned it'll be stolen or my luggage "lost" if I fly with it in checked baggage. That said I've never had a baggage problem with Jet Blue and the flights are direct both ways.


    Thanks

    ****
    NO I live in ma . you have to ship your gun to a gun dealer than pick up form him.. my understanding.. even if I get one in a neiboring state like Maine. how ever if I was driving to maine or anther state I would just take in car with me.. there are some states be no problem if got pulled over others could be introuble, but I take the chance drive carefull. if flying you can take gun on plane packed away in luggage area un loaded off course with trigger lock but check with airline they have diff rules.. a friend my does it a lot

  10. False

    Quote Originally Posted by jedma View Post
    NO I live in ma . you have to ship your gun to a gun dealer than pick up form him.. my understanding.. even if I get one in a neiboring state like Maine. how ever if I was driving to maine or anther state I would just take in car with me.. there are some states be no problem if got pulled over others could be introuble, but I take the chance drive carefull. if flying you can take gun on plane packed away in luggage area un loaded off course with trigger lock but check with airline they have diff rules.. a friend my does it a lot
    FALSE! You CAN ship a gun from your home state to yourself in another state, and back! As long as the state you are sending it to allows that particular firearm! It's in black and white on the ATF website. Sheesh. Research before you answer people! Please follow this link to the ATF website and READ. DO NOT ASSUME.

    It's Number 6 of the top 10 FAQ at The ATF LOL and still people get it wrong!
    https://www.atf.gov/file/61721/download

  11. #20
    I was in Industrial Purchasing in my working life and when we had things shipped "UPS Next Day Air" they were not inspected in shipping. Not even if coming in from overseas.

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