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Thread: Open Carry a 12 gauge?

  1. Quote Originally Posted by Combat View Post
    If you're planning on carrying a shotgun in the woods, i don't see any issue. However, OCing a shotgun or long gun in WA state is walking a thin line. See State v. Spencer, 876 P. 2d 939.

    The pertinent RCW is 9.41.270. Basically, carrying a long gun or shotgun even using a sling (as in State v. Spencer) in the city "warrants" alarm for people's safety. However, OC of a handgun is generally acceptable provided you're not doing it in a threatening manner.
    You are mistaken, my friend. In the Spencer case the deciding factor was not carrying a slung rifle/shotgun. The deciding factors were that Spencer was doing so in a residential neighbor AND at night AND walking briskly AND had his head down not making eye contact with anyone AND both a law enforcement officer and several firefighters agreed that his actions warranted alarm.

    On the other hand, if you will look at State v. Casaad in Washington:

    http://forum.nwcdl.org/index.php?act...=downfile&id=9

    Casad was walking down the street on a Saturday afternoon in Port Angeles with two rifles partially wrapped in towels in his arms. A woman calls 911 to report him. From the court opinion:

    While it is not unlawful for a person to merely possess a firearm in
    public, the statute at issue does not violate one’s right to bear arms because “[i]n the vast majority
    of situations, a person of common intelligence would be able to ascertain when the carrying of a
    particular weapon would reasonably warrant alarm in others.” Spencer, 75 Wn. App. at 123-24.
    When determining whether the evidence is sufficient to prove unlawful display, the trier of fact
    considers circumstances such as: (1) the type of neighborhood in which the weapon was carried;
    (2) the time of day; (3) the urban environment; (4) the manner in which the weapon was carried;
    (5) the size and type of weapon; and (6) whether the weapon had a visibly attached clip. Spencer,
    75 Wn. App. at 123 n.4.
    The trial court held:
    Here, the Defendant was carrying a rifle only partially concealed and clearly
    identifiable as a rifle to the citizen who made the call as well as law enforcement
    officers, with the barrel pointing towards the ground walking on a main
    thoroughfare in the City of Port Angeles in daylight hours. In fact there were two
    rifles, which would likely be less alarming than the carrying of one rifle. Nothing
    indicates that the manner in which the Defendant was carrying the weapons in any
    way would give reasonable cause for alarm unless the mere fact of carrying a
    weapon within the city limits in the open in daylight on a major thoroughfare in
    and of itself would cause such alarm. The statute does not and, under the
    Constitution, cannot prohibit the mere carrying of a firearm in public. Therefore
    the Court finds that the officers at the time of the initial contact had no reasonable
    articulable suspicion that any criminal activity was occurring.
    CP at 20 (emphasis added).
    Under the Spencer factors, the facts in this case did not allow the police to detain Casad.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

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  3. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    You are mistaken, my friend. In the Spencer case the deciding factor was not carrying a slung rifle/shotgun. The deciding factors were that Spencer was doing so in a residential neighbor AND at night AND walking briskly AND had his head down not making eye contact with anyone AND both a law enforcement officer and several firefighters agreed that his actions warranted alarm.

    On the other hand, if you will look at State v. Casaad in Washington:

    http://forum.nwcdl.org/index.php?act...=downfile&id=9

    Casad was walking down the street on a Saturday afternoon in Port Angeles with two rifles partially wrapped in towels in his arms. A woman calls 911 to report him. From the court opinion:
    Hey, i recognize you from opencarry dot org as I'm a member on their as well. :)

    Perhaps my wording was a little strong. What i should have said is "depending on circumstances, OCing a shotgun in the city - even in a sling - MIGHT warrant alarm. I think it's a thin line you'd be walking.

    I also think one of the deciding factors with State v. Spencer is that people could see the rifle had a magazine inserted. With State v. Casad, the rifles were unloaded.

    Personally, i don't think spencer should have been convicted of 9.41.270. In my opinion, that law is way too vague. The state AND US constitutions say no one can infringe on our RIGHT to carry, and yet that's exactly what 270 does.

  4. #13
    I know the law is strange, however I would have to check if I were you just for the fact that I could swear I remember reading that you cannot carry a rifle or shotgun loaded.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by slag_it! View Post
    I know the law is strange, however I would have to check if I were you just for the fact that I could swear I remember reading that you cannot carry a rifle or shotgun loaded.
    The hunting laws make it illegal to have a loaded rifle or shotgun IN A VEHICLE. Outside a vehicle is perfectly legal to carry a loaded rifle or shotgun.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  6. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    The hunting laws make it illegal to have a loaded rifle or shotgun IN A VEHICLE. Outside a vehicle is perfectly legal to carry a loaded rifle or shotgun.
    I knew it was something like that. Thanks for clearifying it.

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