Helping a victim or not???? - Page 2
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 37

Thread: Helping a victim or not????

  1. Phillip Gain makes sense to me.

    But as to the people who say they won't get involved because they aren't the police: In 21st century American society, these people are realists. They may not be what I would call "Good Men," but they know that the one crime today's police and prosecutors will always prosecute (persecute) MERCILESSLY is "doing the job the cop believes is his." They don't think going to prison will be good for them or their families. God knows, I don't want to see any more Kitty Genovese incidents, but today's society, the modern American Police State, has trained people to react in this manner.

    It's up to us to change things. We go armed because it is both our Right and our Responsibility. Col. Cooper was right about a duty to society.

    Yes, we have a responsibility to help. It's a big risk, made much bigger by the Police State. But we cannot simply walk past evil. Evil wins when good men do nothing.

    Yes, know the situation before you step in. But by actual annual body count, Police kill ten times as many innocent bystanders as non-Police defenders (I will not say "civilian" because Police ARE civilians). I'd say ordinary citizens have a decent track record on knowing the score before intervening.
    “The police of a State should never be stronger or better armed than the citizenry. An armed citizenry, willing to fight is the foundation of civil freedom.” Heinlein

  2.   
  3. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    Then when the rape is done and the criminal cuts her throat with the knife, then what? Oh, I'm sorry... I could have prevented that... but I chose to call the police... who, when seconds count are only two hours away. I would not have it in me to stand by and be the best possible witness to a violent crime while waiting for the police to arrive.
    I have a teenage daughter...I couldnot pass by a woman in need, no matter what. And as a side note I have already interveined on an assault, I was only 18 and I was completely unarmed. The woman was being assaulted on the street about 11:00pm, I drove upon the curb and put my bumper about 2 feet from his head while he was bent over her on the ground. I got the girl in my car and drove her to the police station. He was an abusive ex-boyfriend...And she was extremely gratefull.

  4. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by ASC1WBullock View Post
    Phillips Gain, good points and for your first comment about bringing old post if you read my opening statement you will see I said something that has been bugging me about these post replies. Second if you intervene does that mean you have to shoot someone? No. Stopping the threat doesn't mean shooting all the time or even most of the time. Am I wrong?
    No but unlike the Hollywood films we all watch, not every criminal backs down when they are shown a firearm. What happens when he/she/they rush you after dropping their weapons? Going to shoot an unarmed person? Are you any good at ground fighting?

    Lets say you did shoot them, as training videos and real world tapes show a person can close in with in seconds. Unlike films one shot does not kill on the spot, nor does it send them flying back ten feet. They would more then likely still have enough fight left in them to stab/shot you a few times.

    Lets add another kink into the works, the vic turns around and sues you for causing them PTSD(shooting the BG)

    Now you find yourself defending yourself from criminal charges(if any come down)and two civil suits.

    THEY MAY TAKE OUR LIVES BUT THEY'LL NEVER TAKE OUR FREEDOM!!!!!

  5. Quote Originally Posted by S&WM&P40 View Post
    No but unlike the Hollywood films we all watch, not every criminal backs down when they are shown a firearm. What happens when he/she/they rush you after dropping their weapons? Going to shoot an unarmed person? Are you any good at ground fighting?

    Lets say you did shoot them, as training videos and real world tapes show a person can close in with in seconds. Unlike films one shot does not kill on the spot, nor does it send them flying back ten feet. They would more then likely still have enough fight left in them to stab/shot you a few times.

    Lets add another kink into the works, the vic turns around and sues you for causing them PTSD(shooting the BG)

    Now you find yourself defending yourself from criminal charges(if any come down)and two civil suits.
    Better than the sleepless nights I would have knowing that I watched a woman being raped, being the best witness I could while waiting for the police to arrive. At least I would have the respect of my family.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  6. #15
    My God people. If you carry just to make yourself feel bigger, but never plan to draw for fear of liability, then put that puppy back in the safe and start carrying pepper spray or a stun gun. Because you carrying should actually have a chance of benefitting someone someday!

    I carry because if someday, God forbid, I find myself able to prevent a great evil from taking place, I will. I'm not looking for trouble, far from it. I hope paper bad guys are all I ever get to shoot. But I will not stand idly by and allow a violent crime to take place in my presence if I have the ability to stop it. And I will certainly not let fear of liability stop me from doing what is right and reasonable.

  7. #16
    Providence Ranch and NavyLCDR hit it right on the head. I agree with both of you one hundred percent. Going to sleep at night knowing I helped an innocent person from harm compared to watching and waiting for the police to come do their job after the fact is more settling for me. I mean if your first thought is am I going to be sued for helping this person then keep right on walking. SMH how have we as a country let the courts punish a man or woman for coming to the aid of another human being?

  8. #17
    The situation that you describe is so clear cut that you'd be well within the law in most places to intervene. Unfortunately, it usually isn't that way in reality.

    For arguments sake, if it was that clear of course you should intervene.

  9. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Providence Ranch View Post
    My God people. If you carry just to make yourself feel bigger, but never plan to draw for fear of liability, then put that puppy back in the safe and start carrying pepper spray or a stun gun. Because you carrying should actually have a chance of benefitting someone someday!

    I carry because if someday, God forbid, I find myself able to prevent a great evil from taking place, I will. I'm not looking for trouble, far from it. I hope paper bad guys are all I ever get to shoot. But I will not stand idly by and allow a violent crime to take place in my presence if I have the ability to stop it. And I will certainly not let fear of liability stop me from doing what is right and reasonable.
    Ah yet another great "Sheep Dog" trying to talk down to the flock. Sorry can I not stop myself from laughing I have to stop reading your self righteous BS.

    Just a FYI a lot of members do carry a less then lethal as well as a firearm.

    Sorry, I applied for my concealed weapons permit so I could have yet another legal tool to defend myself and my family. I did not apply for it so
    Because you carrying should actually have a chance of benefiting someone someday!
    I left the boxes on that bottom that asked if I wanted a badge and red cape blank. Their is more then one way to help someone other then playing dirty harry as so many seem to want to do. As other members have said be a good witness,set your car alarm off and draw a lot of attention,yell at the person.

    Draw your firearm and the person does not stop what he is doing then what? Shoot a unarmed person who was attacking someone else?

    Check the laws in your state. Here in NH is someone is getting raped or is about to your clear to use deadly force to stop such an attack.

    CRIMINAL CODE
    CHAPTER 627
    JUSTIFICATION
    Section 627:4
    627:4 Physical Force in Defense of a Person.

    II. A person is justified in using deadly force upon another person when he reasonably believes that such other person:

    (c) Is committing or about to commit kidnapping or a forcible sex offense.

    Just because I can does not mean I will.

    THEY MAY TAKE OUR LIVES BUT THEY'LL NEVER TAKE OUR FREEDOM!!!!!

  10. #19
    Bottom line:

    To the first question: If your life and safety is in danger, you are justified to shoot. Keep shooting until the threat is stopped.

    To the second question: If you happen across a situation where someone else's life and safety appears to be in danger, you may choose to intervene. Assess the situation as best you can. Know the law. Understand the risks to yourself and your family. Make your decision, and be prepared to live with the consequences regardless of what that decision is.

    There are a lot of guys who talk a lot of sh** on this forum. Some of them even have some experience in situations like this. I strongly recommend you acquire as much training and knowledge as you can. Then should you be unfortunate enough to be in either position, you will be able to make your own decision, rather than blindly following the advice of a nameless, faceless "keyboard tough guy."
    S&W M&P 45; Ruger GP100 .357 Magnum; Charter Arms .38 Undercover
    http://www.usacarry.com/forums/members/phillip-gain-albums-phil-s-photos-picture3828-reciprocity-map-29jun11.JPG

  11. #20
    @S&WM&P40

    Interesting. I was rather certain some small mind out there would miss my point entirely, and the word "sheepdog" or "keyboard warrior" or some other clever slam would come out. Nice.

    What you'll notice, though, if you reread my post, Is that never once did I suggest that the firearm is the only element in the use of force continuum. Of course the first answer is rarely going to "draw and fire." There are many other options for providing assistance, as you pointed out.

    What I am railing against in particular is the attitude that some have, that whenever anyone suggests they would be the type to get involved and help someone in need, they do just as you have, and jeer and label them wannabe cops or caped crusaders, etc.

    Apparently, if you're the kind of person to help out a stranger in trouble, but you keep quiet about it, you're ok. But the minute you speak up, you're a mall ninja. Pathetic.

Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Quantcast