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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Inland Empire
    Posts
    394

    Exclamation ANOMALOUS open carry State.

    Ah-Hem m1gunr (Military..RA/NG/AR active-duty, Abrams tanker? & passing thru on your way to 20 yrs?)
    In Washington state it is "unlawful for any person to carry, exhibit, display, or draw any firearm, dagger, sword, knife or other cutting or stabbing instrument, club, or any other weapon apparently capable of producing bodily harm, in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons..." The catch the law will persecute, then prosecute you on the alarm you & it caused to Joe/Jill Public (check those public safety RCW's) I've lived here for the last 7 years + 2 yrs (80-82) @ Ft. Lewis, 9th ID, 9th Med. Bn, making 9 years total and been ALL over this state, never once seen any open carry pistols or fools stupid enough to show off their shooters in a public place, so I wonder which RCW U R getting your poop from and maybe misinforming a new arrival into a world of legal hurt. http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.050 does not include a caveat about 'open carry', which is about the fastest way any city, county or state LEO will slap a 'brandishing' charge on you, @ least, set a court date and U can then argue with some judge as to why your .357 Mag was 'Causing alarm' sticking out of your John Wayne cow-boy holster at Northtown Mall! This ain't Missouri but SHOW ME the RCW that states even with a CC permit U can go around with your guns hanging off your gear! Don't show me it's absence in the law or assumption/presumption that B-cause it don't say OPEN CARRY IS OK IF.... Reality IS you will last about 15 mins in a public place B 4 the cuffs are on U, your gun now evidence, U R in custody @ the local jail and U looking @ a world of lawful hurt ahead! Please don't try open carry in Spokane city or county, U risk a LOT!

    Canis-Lupus :confused22:
    Last edited by Canis-Lupus; 04-10-2008 at 09:33 PM.

  2.   
  3. Canis,

    There does seem to be some confussion here. I too was told that it is lawful to open carry in the state of Washington but like you have never seen it done. I was told open carry was legal by a LEO but that if you were to do so inside the city limits you would most like get the attention of LE. He said it was due to the alarm that it would cause, but that after checking you out you most likely would be let go on your way with a warning.

    Now add to that the fact that while checking all this out I saw that there has been a recent movement to encourage open carry in WA state. In fact the relevant law they use to dispute open carry was enacted in 1968 in response to the Black Panther movements actions in Kalifornia that year. But I read on the web, wikpedia I think, that they had recently shown that this statute did not prohibit the lawful open carrying of firearms.

    Have you heard anything about this? I know I watched a news program from Spokane about 2 brothers over in Idaho who open carried all over, one was 18 so he carried a Rugger 10/22. I think outside the city limits it would be acceptable. I know my neighbor open carries to and from the range and has not been hassesled. Of course we live in Stevens county more out in the country.
    ["Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!"
    - Ben Franklin
    FONT]

  4. Here is what I was refering to.

    [edit] Washington
    Washington is one of the original "shall issue" states, in which a concealed pistol permit must be issued to any applicant, age 21 or older, who meets certain requirements, including no felony convictions, no misdemeanor domestic violence convictions, and no outstanding warrants.[91][92] Furthermore, a concealed pistol license is not required to carry a concealed pistol if the person carrying the firearm is in route to, in route from, or actively participating in a "legitimate outdoor activity".[93] Open carrying of firearms is not prohibited by law although trouble with some law enforcement agencies has been encountered while open carrying in the past, most notably in a case in Ellensburg, Washington.[94]

    Currently, there is a growing movement towards open carry in Washington. In Washington, there was a tremendous amount of disinformation among law enforcement officers, gun store employees, and firearms instructors about RCW 9.41.270.

    In December 2005, activists Lonnie Wilson and Jim March went to the state archives in Olympia to research the origins of the law. March, with his experience in researching gun control laws created out of racial discrimination and strife in California, surmised during a conversation between himself and Wilson that due to year it was passed, it was likely due to "Panther paranoia". March was proven correct.

    The law, passed in 1969, was passed in response to incidents involving the Seattle Chapter of Black Panther Party at Rainier Beach High School and the Protest of the Mulford Act by the main organization in the California Assembly.

    Due to the fact that Washington State Constitution has an individual right to keep and bear arms provision (Article 1, Section 24), the Washington Legislature revised the bill that was debated to remove the "within 500 feet of a public place" provisions and left the current statute as is. There were points of debate about whether this could be interpreted as an open carry ban, to which the sponsors of the bill replied that it was a ban against the type of intimidation that the Black Panther Party engaged in at Rainier Beach and the California Assembly, not an open carry ban.

    Many law enforcement, a generation removed from the events and discussions of the Legislature when the law was created, and without much guidance interpreted the law passed as an open carry ban that is situational to someone making a 911 phone call. This interpretation spread to gun store employees and firearms instructors, who have a lot of personal interaction with law enforcement.

    Using the information from the state archives, Wilson pursued the issuance of guidance and memorandums to individual officers by police administrators. After one of these bulletins was issued by one department, Wilson acquired the bulletin by a public records request, used the training bulletin as a template and approached most police departments throughout the state. To this day, over a dozen major departments, including the King County Sheriff's Department and the Seattle Police Department, have issued advisories and roll call training to their officers that peaceable open carry of a handgun in a holster is legal.

    As a general rule, a person may legally open carry in Washington State in any place it is legal to possess a loaded handgun. To open carry in a vehicle (i.e., car, bus, etc...) a person must have a valid concealed pistol license. Some police agencies can be unfriendly towards open carry, so it is important that before a person exercises their right to bear arms in this fashion they acquaint themselves with relevant laws.

    Prohibited areas for firearms are contained in RCW 9.41.300, RCW 9.41.280, and RCW 70.108.150.

    Per RCW 9.41.290 (state preemption of firearm laws), divisions of local government (city, county, town, or other municipality) cannot regulate firearms more restrictively than the state does. Exceptions to state preemption that is, areas in which local governments are allowed to regulate firearms are contained in RCW 9.41.300. These exceptions include:

    "Restricting the discharge of firearms in any portion of their respective jurisdictions where there is a reasonable likelihood that humans, domestic animals, or property will be jeopardized. Such laws and ordinances shall not abridge the right of the individual guaranteed by Article I, section 24 of the state Constitution to bear arms in defense of self or others."
    "Restricting the possession of firearms in any stadium or convention center, operated by a city, town, county, except that such restrictions shall not apply to [concealed pistol license holders, law enforcement officers, or any] showing, demonstration, or lecture involving the exhibition of firearms."
    "Restricting the areas in their respective jurisdictions in which firearms may be sold."
    Several localities (including transit agencies) who had wrongfully enforced preempted local ordinances and rules have been challenged by activists in the open carry movement (who are most directly affected by the enforcement of such ordinances) and have since backed down from enforcement and directed their police departments to no longer enforce the ordinances and rules.

    Although Washington state is typically liberal on firearms issues. Washington allows ownership of a firearm silencer, but using one is prohibited by RCW 9.41.250(3) which makes it a gross misdemeanor to "Use[s] any contrivance or device for suppressing the noise of any firearm."

    Washington is a "Stand Your Ground" state, in which there is no duty to retreat in the face of what would be perceived by an ordinary person to be a threat to themselves or others by another person that is likely to cause serious injury or death.

    It is a Class C felony for a non-citizen to possess a firearm in Washington without an Alien Firearm License. Washington is not currently issuing Alien Firearm Licenses.
    ["Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!"
    - Ben Franklin
    FONT]

  5. another link this is from a training program for King County Sherriffs

    http://www.opencarry.org/pdf/KingCou...fsBulletin.pdf
    ["Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!"
    - Ben Franklin
    FONT]

  6. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Inland Empire
    Posts
    394

    Thumbs up Gracias Gunny!

    Thanks for the refresher Gunny, U bet 'ya I looked up online the history and Panther scare in Kalifornia, and the fallout it caused here last I read was a 1983 (?) rumble in court. I was in HI then and Active Duty Army with the 25th Inf Div (L) not caring much about WA news! I will concede it is a way iffy call, but a smart-C-carry person would defer to total concealment at all times, because per differing cities, counties and state LEO's you run into, and the type/attitude of the cop U run into (rookie vs. vet, male vs. female, old or young), just how much have they been trained on the CC rights of Jo Public and the situation that brings you to their attention (BIGGY!) it may be a warning to not alarm anyone and have a nice day, or in Spokane city, the cuffs do go on. In a State where you can not have a loaded pistol (even with a CC permit) Velcro-ed or visible sitting on the dash board of your car (brandishing 101), I find it highly likely that should you take a pistol anywhere that elicits a panic call to 911 that whomever responds will probably cite the 'packer' with 'Causing a breach of the peace/alarming the public or BRANDISHING' the most common fall-back when U R carrying and anyone calls 911 saying: "I fear for my life, this guy has a gun, looks mean and dangerous! My kids are crying/scared, etc." They just said the right words forcing the LEO's to take some action! I called the front desk of City of Spokane police dpt., and the officer just asked after a LONG wait "We would probably detain you and we would ask you for your concealed-carry permit, maybe run a full background check on you which may slow you down a while, we may confiscate your weapon if we feel you are causing alarm with it or under the influence and we may cite or arrest you for brandishing in public or for other violations depending on what you were doing. So tell me why on earth do you want to make an ass out of your self playing Rambo in a public place where NO ONE wants to fear your gun son?" click! I do not plan on calling them back with more loaded questions!
    You see if you can get a better answer Spokane City Police front desk: 509-625-4100 8:30am-4:30pm M-F (non-emergency).
    Not wanting to get a 'name' for myself for asking very provocative questions that piss LEO's off I left the county LEO's alone, I have to live here and the cops are cool with me as I am with them.
    I still await that RCW # that says: "A person with a CC permit may openly carry a loaded pistol in public places..." Or something VERY close to what I can parrot back to a LEO if he/she ever sees the tip/butt of my Beretta sticking outa my Levis back pocket. Not like that will EVER happen! If I ever had to call 911 for a real emergency I would I.D. what I looked like, and what I was doing running around with a loaded pistol, then hope I wasn't told to stop and wait for a police response, common sense stuff. Or I could stroll down by the River Walk with my pistol in a belt carry holster, wearing an NRA T-shirt of course, and maybe you would come & bail me out if I sent U my phone number? JK!!!!!
    Regards,

    Canis-Lupus :13:
    Last edited by Canis-Lupus; 04-11-2008 at 02:42 PM. Reason: Kicks 'n giggles......

  7. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Pacific Northwest
    Posts
    147
    Unless you are Saudi royalty, it will be worth your effort to do some homework regarding real estate prices in various areas. Buying in Seattle is EXPENSIVE, and gas is almost $4/gal so you need to weigh purchase price vs. commuting costs. Traffic in the SeaTac area is heavy during rush hour. Weather is not conducive to using a motorcycle as your compensating factor for fuel cost and traffic unless you carry your sack in a wheelbarrow or really enjoy being cold and wet. This is one of the last areas to be affected by the "adjustment" in property prices, but it does appear to be happening. Your original post does not mention your specific line of work (unless I wasn't paying close enough attention.) I know little/nothing about Microsoft. Boeing has 2 main facilities- in the South, i.e. Renton/Auburn and Everett. I can speak to employment possibiities with Boeing since I work there. The Big B has several programs that are getting going and this is a good time to monitor their employment sites. They are also taking on lots of contractors, which pays well but does not offer the peripheral benefits of being a Direct employee. Given the choice, I would prefer working at the Everett plant (which is where I work). Living in Everett gives you access to the cultural niceties of Seattle without the crap that goes with living in a big city.

    Remember- WA is in reality 2 states. The Sea-Tac Megalopolis is like Santa Monica in the DPRK, i.e. the Leftie Paradise that elects socialist cretins like Jim Mc Dimwit and Patty Murray and puts in $300K public toilets for bums to smoke crack and hookers to turn tricks. The other WA, especially East of the Cascades is more like the rest of the Western USA- think Idaho.

    Open carry may be technically legal, but if you do it in Alderwood Mall and some bed wetter nasties their knickers in terror you will be inconvenienced at the very least. Other than NFA issues WA is pretty cool. As mentioned in other posts a CHL is easy to get, and there are sources of excellent instruction not too far off. If you move here PM me.
    Last edited by revjen45; 05-03-2008 at 08:03 PM. Reason: better choice of words
    Better to perish in the struggle for freedom than live to see defeat. There ARE things to be feared more than death. The fyrd is a Constitutional imperative.

  8. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Inland Empire
    Posts
    394

    Unhappy Nice Bit of Advice.

    Howdy revjen45!
    I thought this thread had died, but I was glad to read your very precise spin on the 2-Washingtons and the current SITREP about Sea-Tac, Kingdom Kounty! My friend's (rich) dad died about 20 years back. In life he raised a big family of 6 kids in a super-nice Tudor style 10-bed, 4-bath, 2-kithchen, full basement, 3 fire-places, oak & tile floors, mahogany & cherry cabinets through-out, finished attic with sky-lights, working fresh water well and 3 wind-mills on the hilly parts for (almost) free power; the worx, dream home he had built from the ground up when acres were selling at like $1.5K a pop, and Tacoma hadn't even incorporated that state wilderness land yet. A constant view of Mt. Rainier & the Cascades to the east and the sea to the west! It had a large stable, a huge barn, enclosed garages, a tennis-court, I could go on but you get the idea, 10K acres of dense wooded land & their own streams, 2 ponds & servants quarters (!), built 1946-7 when he got back from WWII as a retired Navy doctor (Colonel), married to a civilian ICU nurse. Good people! Anyway the kids grew-up, split to raise their own families in smaller homes all over WA, 2 stayed on as care-takers but that didn't last long with no one paying them except their fathers estate in the bank cash. One I stayed in contact with for 28 years and she moved here to Spokane in 1980. The 4 remaining offspring just got the property taxes on the place, no-note, paid off in full in the 70's. Tacoma wanted $1.5 million (back property taxes) on an empty home that was losing value every year thru lack of up-keep, with land/view the worx. None of the now grown/middle-aged surviving chidren had that kind of ca$h to keep it alive, no trust would take it as it was not an orginal 19-century structure with a history, no one would or could rent it out ($10-15K a month) and even break-even, so it was foreclosed, flattend, and a mall put in 2 years ago, now surrounded by middle-class living apartments, a few permanent $1/2 mil homes, a school and a park. Those 1-bed, 1-bath 3-story apartments start at barely 1K sq ft, run $1,500 a month, and that will be going up to $2k a month VERY soon. Tacoma took one of the most fantastic homes I have ever seen, wiped it off the map and now it's just rental suburbia (with a McDonalds!) average living where once deer grazed and salmon jumped that U could catch with your bare hands! I can't even go near that place anymore, the memories it brings back of such great days in my mid-20's riding horses down those wooded trails with that family (I was stationed at Ft. Lewis 80-02 and met them thru a woman I went on to marry & regret I ever did) or just wandering through those pristine pines is just a bitter memory now to see pictures of it sent into my inbox. I know this has nothing to do with guns, but just adds a bit more push to your tale that I saw change for the worse. Give Spokane 20 years and we may suffer the same fate. God, I hope not!
    Regards,

    Canis-Lupus :-(
    Last edited by Canis-Lupus; 05-13-2008 at 01:18 AM.

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