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Thread: Wife draws at Walmart

  1. #121
    With all the cameras in Wal-Mart, I bet the rent a cops at Wal-Mart wondered who your wife was.
    .


    I would be inclined to do pretty much what your wife did, with a few jogs in the road. I would also take cover, with my hand on my weapon, while it remained holstered.
    .


    Once out of a holster, that is just one step from a finger on the trigger to fire a handgun. In a big box store, with a thousand people inside, and little to stop a round from hitting not one person, but many people. Because of the logistics, her actions were more critical, than most anywhere she could have been. Drawing her weapon, in my opinion, as a NRA certified Instructor, was a step too far.
    .


    Rather than drawing her weapon, helping move others away from the man, would have been a better course of action. IMHO.

  2.   
  3. #122
    Join Date
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    Hmmm, let me see if I have a handle on this thread after 120 posts....

    Some say she overreacted...
    Some say she was great!

    What I have noticed is that there has been much back and forth and there has been much reiteration of already stated opinions to the point of being ridiculous.

    I like this site, since I have learned a lot, I feel I've shared a lot, and I feel some have learned from me. But I'm unsubscribing to this particular thread now because it has gone through its course many many posts ago.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote."
    ~ Benjamin Franklin (maybe)

  4. I would not be speaking of such matters in a open forum..

  5. #124
    Can't help but wonder if we were able to see the security tapes of the incident, and read the police reports, if any of our opinions would change.

  6. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by BC1 View Post
    I guess I hit a nerve. And I don't care about those BS credentials. What's really important isn't listed. I teach a PP class for those in wheelchairs so settle down. Simply put, the gal did not handle the situation correctly. End of conversation. Go to your course syllabus and tell me where, as an instructor, you teach people to do this. Conversation is over. You never had an argument.
    It seems as though I'm the one who "hit a nerve" here. Your post exemplifies the pinnacle of NRA instructor arrogance. You say you don't care about those BS credentials then turn right around and cite course syllabus to support your argument in the same paragraph. No Mr. BC1, it's not the end of the conversation. I will give you the end of it and this is my last post on the matter. I am posting this to enlighten you and anyone else who think she overreacted and who delight in using my "instructor moniker" as grounds for contention or to strengthen their point. To begin with, I am as much of a book dweeb as you are when I teach an NRA course. I teach strictly from the NRA course curriculum and do not interject any of my own opinions or recommendations because that is my job as an NRA certified instructor.
    That said I don't agree with everything the NRA puts out. The NRA has to worry about public opinion, media and political correctness along with all sorts of crud I don't concern myself with. I believe that audio is a valid sensory input and I don't have to actually see someone shooting a firearm or charging at me with a sword to prepare to defend myself. I suppose those who believe visual ID is a must before you should react would just stand there after hearing "Allah Akbar" and gunfire.? My main point is that I will defend myself and my family as resolutely, deliberately and aggressively as I deem necessary and my wife will do the same. If that means violating your opinion or that of other forum members or that of the NRA then that's just TS. We both believe she acted in her best interests and I support her decision and her actions. She is my wife, not my student and I do not wear my instructor hat when it comes to the safety of my family. We are both prepared to face whatever legal ramifications may come our way because of it.

    END OF CONVERSATION!!!
    All The Best
    Gunz

  7. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gr8gunz View Post
    It seems as though I'm the one who "hit a nerve" here. Your post exemplifies the pinnacle of NRA instructor arrogance. You say you don't care about those BS credentials then turn right around and cite course syllabus to support your argument in the same paragraph. No Mr. BC1, it's not the end of the conversation. I will give you the end of it and this is my last post on the matter. I am posting this to enlighten you and anyone else who think she overreacted and who delight in using my "instructor moniker" as grounds for contention or to strengthen their point. To begin with, I am as much of a book dweeb as you are when I teach an NRA course. I teach strictly from the NRA course curriculum and do not interject any of my own opinions or recommendations because that is my job as an NRA certified instructor.
    That said I don't agree with everything the NRA puts out. The NRA has to worry about public opinion, media and political correctness along with all sorts of crud I don't concern myself with. I believe that audio is a valid sensory input and I don't have to actually see someone shooting a firearm or charging at me with a sword to prepare to defend myself. I suppose those who believe visual ID is a must before you should react would just stand there after hearing "Allah Akbar" and gunfire.? My main point is that I will defend myself and my family as resolutely, deliberately and aggressively as I deem necessary and my wife will do the same. If that means violating your opinion or that of other forum members or that of the NRA then that's just TS. We both believe she acted in her best interests and I support her decision and her actions. She is my wife, not my student and I do not wear my instructor hat when it comes to the safety of my family. We are both prepared to face whatever legal ramifications may come our way because of it.

    END OF CONVERSATION!!!
    The legal bill is the end of the conversation. Only draw a gun when the threat is so severe that you MUST ruin your life. She acted inappropriately by all standards, NRA or other.
    GOD, GUNS and GUITARS

  8. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverkilt View Post
    The police arrived with guns drawn....that's a strong sign that firearms were in order for the situation... If the crazy man had swung his club at someone I'd for sure be leaping into the fray breaking all the NRA rules too... when it comes to choosing between compliance with the rules or the outcome of keeping people alive I'm gonna go with outcome every time.
    Firearms were in order for the police entering the situation, not a civilian. She isn't a LEO and isn't trained as one. If a crazy swings his club at you you're getting hit because I'm not losing everything I've worked for to save you. But, he didn't swing a cub at civilians so this is all hypothetical. using a gun to defend a car? Not doing that either. I can replace my car with one phone call. I can't replace my life once I act. Using a gun is a last resort, when a grave threat exists and when you must ruin your life to save it. No wonder the anti's are scared. There's plenty of legal gun owners who aren't using their smarts.
    GOD, GUNS and GUITARS

  9. #128
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
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    Quote Originally Posted by american.heart View Post
    we are both sorry he posted anything at all.
    I have to say that the quoted part of your post (or your actions) is the only part I disagree with.

    I have 25 years of federal law enforcement experience. As such, I did not have to attend a CCW class to get my permit. I did read all applicable state laws for where I work (VA) and where my home is (SC) to ensure I knew my responsibilities. If anyone knows of a link to general (applicable to all states) CC info that would be taught in class or any specific to SC I would love to review it, but as a government employee I won't pay for it unless I have to due to available funds.

    Regardless of the state, the most important responsibility when carrying a firearm is situational awareness. What constitutes the need to draw a weapon is personal. For example: a young, fit person trained in some form of hand-to-hand combat and a 61 year old overweight person would have a completely different opinion if placed in the exact same scenario. My earlier point about "articulating" you view is the only part I mentioned about the legal aspect.

    For the posters who said you were "brandishing" your gun, I found this definition. Please keep an open mind when reading your local ordinances if they consider it an offense. brandish to wave or flourish (a weapon) in a triumphant, threatening, or ostentatious way.
    I found several definitions, but all mentioned "wave" and "threatening"... My interpretation is that drawing is not necessarily "brandishing".

    Another important definition is self-defense (according to U.S. law) is the right for civilians acting on their own behalf to engage in a level of violence, called reasonable force or defensive force, for the sake of defending one's own life or the lives of others.

    I have only had to draw once in the line of duty. We were conducting a boarding on a small cabin cruiser and, as we always do, one of the first questions I asked was if the man had any weapons. The man said yes, he had a shotgun in the lower cabin. The other guy with me went down to secure the weapon, and our practice is to unload any guns and secure them until we are done with the boarding. The man had a Beretta SO-4 shotgun (google it, it's expensive!). My partner did not know the proper way to unload a shotgun and began racking the rounds out of it. The man got irate and started to go down there and I had to draw and make him stay. I immediately knew what the problem was, so after I de-escalated the situation, and after apologizing, I let the guy instruct my partner about the shell release and the proper way to unload a shotgun (which I would have had to do anyway). It made him feel better and everything went smooth afterwards.

    Anytime that we can have an actual situation to examine it is a learning experience. I thank your hubby for sharing, and I thank you for adding the parts he missed.
    Chief

  10. I was a cop in a large city. retired now. I drew my gun and saw other Police officers draw their guns in incidents when they did not know how bad a incident is going to get, They controlled the gun, keeping the barrel down but ready to use.
    Chasing a strong arm robber ( NO weapon down a dark ally) stopping a car w gang bangers at night, walking up to the car, Gun out but down by my side. You people do not know how fast you can get killed. If she ran out the back way maybe she gets out but it is way easier to shoot someone in the back than the front. Pulling a gun in case your about to face a dangerous situation takes thinking like she did. We carry a gun in case we are attacked. IN CASE!!!!!!
    you wait till your sure your getting attacked to (OH go get your gun when a big guy dirty and scruffy looking pounds on your door at 11 PM at night) Oh its a drunk guy from down the block who is lost. should not shoot him but should call the police He never knew you had a gun. the gang bangers never knew I had my gun out A 61 year old women hears and sees a man w a bat swinging it and hitting stuff, In MHO is right to pull the gun and get ready to shoot NOT shoot yet!! he hits some one in the head he is dead. that fast. So lets say she can not see him That means he can not see her.
    he comes around the corner and starts to hit or shoot ( At this point no one knows if he has a gun or not not you or her. YES Virgina people do use bats or clubs or knifes when they have guns too.) It's the unknown. to read you people I LMAO.
    any of you ever face a bad guy you wait till you see the attack to get ready, TOO late to take kung fu, then , TOO late to get a CCW. too lake to think about what you should have done. You get ready before it happens, Take kung fu, get a ccw, get a gun, learn how to use it and when your in a incident get ready, pulling a gun is not shooting a person.
    After all the shootings in schools, theaters, MCDONALDS, you AHs still think OH we should wait to get ready, NO ccw guns should not be used by normal people just cops. cause they are trained. they will protect me The police are mins away when seconds count ever hear that. Same thing here get ready!!! cause micro seconds count when the bad guys attack first. None of you can draw that fast. MY dear idol BOB MUNDEN has passed away. And if you can great! this women is 61 years old. She pulled and waited if all hell broke loose then she was ready. NOT walking out the back door.
    at the MCD where the kids were shot and at the school Sand HOOK if a man with a CCW and a gun walked out the back door with out helping I would piss in his face! If this women was there she would have shot that punk dead at the first shot of his gun cause she would have been ready. You dingbats would have never got the gun out of your pants he would have seen it and shot you dead.. (cause it would have been stopped by all the poop in the way.) If you don't want to get involved fine!!! just shut up when people who do care about others are talking you would not have got in to the incident then fine!! don't get involved now when we who would are talking. you gave up the right to do that when your a coward.
    or a selfish winy piss ant. be on your own! a man alone is a easy target. you have water, guns and food and a underground safe house in case of the big fall, well guess what cause your alone people with guns who band together can take you and never thank you for getting all that stuff together for them. cause a man alone is easy to take. and you would be dead. if you want to know how to live in case of a end to life as we know it, band together we the people.
    not Carl the crazy down the street in a bomb shelter. The cites will be taken over by the gangs and they will kill each other over the long haul. The county sheriff who band his cops and his county together has a better chance to live past the bad time to better times. We the people. not you selfish cowardly poor excuse of men. you will die alone and your women will be taken by other men. by force or after a decent time by choosing. so don't help your fellow man die alone. cause your women are cute. AND you probable have not taken her dancing or out in a long time so she will be happy with the man who has friends and family who cares about them and her.
    Oh Mrs GUNTZ thank you for caring, even if you did get arrested the jury would have LOL at the cops and SA who took this before them. Do not talk to the nuts cases in this room who think they know it all. We the people care,

  11. #130
    Join Date
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    3,487
    Sorry but I stand my ground............Without a visual threat confirmed I would not have engaged. JMHO. YOU do what YOU think is prudent, I do what I believe is. ALL the other chatter is not relevant to the OP which is what I commented on.

    Stay Cock & Locked my friends!
    "The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." --author and philosopher Ayn Rand (1905-1982)

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