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Thread: Wife draws at Walmart

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by XD40scinNC View Post
    But what the hell does "subdued the guy" mean. I witnessed some jackwagon giving someone a ration of sh!t, yelling, ranting, cussing, and pretty much was subdued when a cop showed up.
    My point being that it was a situation where the cops felt the need to take action rather than calmly ask the guy to leave. Drawing a weapon and blading it from view does not (in my state) constitute a violent action. Had it been me, I may have done the same. If asked to testify in court, "your honor, the situation was deteriorating and I felt that self defense might have been required. I took no action other than drawing and remaining passive until the police responded to the 911 call, at which point I reholstered and went about my business. It took ## minutes for the police to arrive, and not knowing if the BG was armed I felt that my actions were justified until the police arrived."

    And I'll bet ya that it was cop(s) and not cop, and together were probably a better physical match against the idiot.

    Be interesting to hear from his wife about it.

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  3. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Icemanii View Post
    Really? Need to clean my monitor, I keep missing the instructor tag behind your name.

    The great thing about threads like this is the discussion and possible learning experience. But then you have those who decide the only decisions that are correct are their own.
    No offense, but experience is not limited to being an NRA instructor and or (as someone suggested) having a lot of posts...

  4. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC1 View Post
    Yes, but some of us are making observations based in training and experience. The hope is that those without experience learn from us.
    Well said, and something that should be said is that this is a real life situation that you may find yourself in. Any "what would you do if" scenario is a good prompt to check your local ordinances and see if what you think you would have done would be acceptable, legal and justified. And as some in the thread have said, running away is always legal. IMHO, it may be morally reprehensible in some circumstances.

  5. #84
    Might clear things up if the OP could get a copy of the police report on the incident. Wouldn't include his wife, but would shed light on "how serious" the altercation was. Despite my low post count - others got here sooner - I've been LEOx2 and worked mobile crisis and psych units for 15+ years and know well a nutcase on a wild run can go deadly physical fast...So many murder/manslaughters have a crazy run up first. Still support her actions as most prudent for what we know.

  6. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by whodat2710 View Post
    No offense, but experience is not limited to being an NRA instructor and or (as someone suggested) having a lot of posts...
    No offense taken at all.
    My point was that on an internet forum very hard to determine someones actual experience or knowledge. (Never have found that sarcasm font button to use).
    This thread only has a limited amount of detail from one side of a story. Not enough to actually determine what happened. I disagreed with people jumping on her for her wording, which again, we don't know the exact words that were used, but the OP may be accurate.
    Do I agree with her drawing her weapon? Don't know enough facts to determine that. But will continue to read the thread to see if we do get more info.

  7. #86
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    I think at this point we are beating a dead horse but I really think this is an excellent example of an overzealous carrier.
    Deadly force even when justified (which it was not in this case) should be the last option. Even if you are not legally obligated to do so if an avenue of retreat is open (circumstance dependant) you should take it. The legal fallout alone should be reason enough to avoid the fight if at all possible.

    In this instance the wife was “some distance from the action” so she didn’t even need to create distance all she had to do was select an avenue of retreat and take it. And really, based on how it all turned out she didn’t even need to do that all she had to do was MYOB and the result would have been exactly the same.

    Finally, a note on trolls,

    The biggest reason I quit posting on this forum was the constant accusation of “troll” against any new member while other members who openly admitted they were trolls were allowed to post at will. Since I see that hasn’t changed at all since my last post I will again bid you all adieu and leave the building
    See, it's mumbo jumbo like that and skinny little lizards like you thinking they the last dragon that gives Kung Fu a bad name.
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  8. #87
    american.heart Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by mappow View Post
    Not saying this isn't a good learning tool. I am saying that this thread was started by someone with a instructed moniker next to his name. For him to be jubilan about his wife drawing her weapon without due cause,i.e. no visual danger just what she heard,. To me is ludicrous.
    Then all the cowboys jump on the band wagon in support of a bad incident. YES , this should be a learning tool BUT let's ensure this is what not to do. Were I'm from she would have been changed with brandishing a weapon.
    Thanks for the feed back.:-)


    It is more ludicrous that you and others like you think you know enough about the situation I was in than I do and can criticize. I will try to make some further explanation of what happened but I am not going to go into a lengthy written report just to satisfy the "what-ifers" in here.
    To begin with you don't have to be directly assaulted to draw your weapon. The use of "deadly force" requires that kind of scrutiny. My husband didn't articulate the situation in it's entirety and believe me, we are both sorry he posted anything at all. We thought we would get support from a PRO_GUN FORUM instead of a bunch of what-ifs and legal beagle BS from the Mappows who weren't even there about how a lawyer might view this. On to the video.

    The guy came in with some kind of club which he was swinging and slamming into the walls, vending machines and the register counters while he was screaming his head off. Although I didn't actually see him or understand exactly what he was saying I heard the banging and obscenities and saw the staff exiting from the area very quickly. Someone shouted "get out of here and call 911". (this is when I drew my weapon and concealed myself) in about 3 minutes 5 or 6 cops came through both entrances with guns drawn. I heard one shout, "GET DOWN AND PLACE YOUR HANDS BEHIND YOUR HEAD"! Things got very quiet right after that at which time I reholstered. If anyone believes my actions were illegal or inappropriate in that situation I really don't give a rip. *I* think what I did was justified, legal and safe. It really doesn't matter what the what-ifers, knowitalls think. They all prove they are much more interested in nitpicking the situation than being happy nobody was hurt and that *I* wouldn' have been hurt if the bad guy headed for me. The cops led the idiot out in handcuffs so someone other than myself must have felt threatened. My husband was somewhat inaccurate with his account of the woman's question. The woman was a friend of mine and her statement was, "hey, you're not a cop" to which I replied, "I am now". Her statement was as facetious as my response. Even if she didn't know me I don't look anything like a cop. I am 61+ years old and more than just a little overweight. I have arthritis in my feet and my legs just don't work well anymore. I am not a very fast mover and running from the store was not really an option for me.
    Incidentally, my husband is also ill and hasn't been teaching lately. When he did teach he was one of the best instructors in the state and I'm not just saying that cuz he's my husband either. He even made the boring parts interesting and his ccw classes were always full even after AZ made the ccw permit unnecessary.
    I truly hope this is sufficient to satisfy the whatifers and nay sayers in this forum. Especially Mr. Mappow who seems to think he is the know-all, see-all authority on how all who carry a gun should behave and how firearms instructors should teach. I see there is no "instructor moniker" next to his name. I am quite impressed that he is a site supporter though. I have been poking around since I joined and I really like USACARRY. I hope to make other posts in the future but I am through with this one so if you have more questions, whatifs or criticism then have at it cuz I'm done. The majority of responses were very positive and I would like to thank all the folks who supported my actions. No one is happier that I was uninjured and stood ready to defend myself than my husband and his "instructor moniker".

  9. #88
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    Read the original post and a few after. Given what the OP said I find her actions did show situational awareness and I have no problems with her action except one. Her answer to "are you a cop?" and her answer "I am one now!"
    I just think for simplicity her answer should have been NO! The questioner had no chance to be confused and would have seen that "regular" people can take responsibility for their own safety. No chance for the wife to face impersonation charges because the intonation of her voice was missed and her intent and humor was not realized.
    Sort of like in MY COUSIN VINNY > > > I shot the clerk. I shot the clerk! I shot the clerk???? Pick one. NO is very simple and could not lead to unintended complications.
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  10. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Treo View Post
    I think at this point we are beating a dead horse but I really think this is an excellent example of an overzealous carrier.
    Deadly force even when justified (which it was not in this case) should be the last option. Even if you are not legally obligated to do so if an avenue of retreat is open (circumstance dependant) you should take it. The legal fallout alone should be reason enough to avoid the fight if at all possible.

    In this instance the wife was “some distance from the action” so she didn’t even need to create distance all she had to do was select an avenue of retreat and take it. And really, based on how it all turned out she didn’t even need to do that all she had to do was MYOB and the result would have been exactly the same.

    Finally, a note on trolls,

    The biggest reason I quit posting on this forum was the constant accusation of “troll” against any new member while other members who openly admitted they were trolls were allowed to post at will. Since I see that hasn’t changed at all since my last post I will again bid you all adieu and leave the building
    More Hooey. She didn't apply deadly force Treo. Drawing a weapon is not deadly force it is only preperation. She was concealed behind a structure and neither the cops or the bad guy ever knew she was there. Only critics of ccw would find fault with that. You can speculate about what the result would have been but nobody knows how things will turn out until after it happens. She drew her weapon and was prepared in case she was attacked and that is what it's all about. I suppose you don't even draw until after you're getting your head beat in. You can read her post and maybe you'll unnerstand why she couldn't simply head for the back door.
    All The Best
    Gunz

  11. #90
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    After reading the response from the lady involved I must restate that the action she took was unwarranted. There was no direct threat, according to her, of death or violence. Thus drawing a weapon is unwarranted. Her actions would be in direct conflict with what is required teaching in the NRA in the course "Personal Protection Outside the Home." If hubby is an instructor have him check the course syllabus, provided he's certified in personal protection. You will find the course teaches the actions of this lady were not recommended. But, the actions a person may take are directly related to their own knowledge, responsibility and training. I would strongly suggest to anyone carrying a gun for protection that they take a course in PP from a reputable, certified source. Not from their own family member. And remember there's a lawyer attached to your gun. Every time you draw it there is a risk of arrest. Only draw a gun when the threat is so great that you must ruin your life.
    GOD, GUNS and GUITARS

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