Unless you live in the state of Texas, I encourage you to pay attention to what happened to a homeowner in Utah. The homeowner arrived at his house to find a suspicious vehicle in his driveway and his front door wide open.
He retrieved a gun from his car and attempted to hold the two people in his driveway at gunpoint. However, when they tried to drive away he shot at the vehicle in an attempt to disable it. What’s more, a burglar came out of the house and ran when he saw the homeowner, and the homeowner chased after the guy and ended up firing a shot.
When all was said and done, the burglar who came out of the house and the homeowner were both arrested and booked into jail. So what did this homeowner do wrong?
Ohhh where do I begin?
First off, this homeowner was either asleep during his concealed carry course or he didn’t pay attention whatsoever. Remember, you can only use deadly force when you are in fear for your life or seriously bodily injury. When the homeowner approached the car and the occupants tried to drive away, they were obviously no longer a threat.
Plus, trying to disable the car by shooting out a tire or shooting the engine block just proves he wasn’t in fear for his life. If he was, he would’ve shot the occupants and not the car.
And when the other burglar came out of the house and started running, it is never a good idea to chase after him, let alone shoot at him. Again, the burglar was running away so he is no longer a threat. Plus, if you chase him and do catch him you don’t know what knives, tools, or guns he has on him.
The fact is, this homeowner is very lucky…
That he didn’t hit the occupants in the car and that he didn’t hit the burglar he was chasing after. If he did, who knows how long he’d end up in jail. What this homeowner should have done is pulled over to the side of the street when he saw a suspicious vehicle in his driveway. He should have called 911 and given them the license plate and waited for police to arrive.
I realize that’s not the macho thing to do and most people will want to approach the car and confront the burglars. All I can say is this: If you do and they flee, just let them go. And if they don’t flee and you’re forced to shoot them, then you may end up wishing for the rest of your life you had just waited in your car and been a good witness.
In other words, resist the macho side we all have, and exercise self-discipline. Your life is far too important to have it ruined because some low-life burglar broke into your house to steal a TV and you felt the need to confront him or chase after him.
Hi, I’m here to steal from you. Please don’t worry, I’m only here to take your hard earned stuff. I’m not going to hurt in any way unless I need to defend myself. Don’t fret much about your stuff isnt that what home insurance is for? Anyways, you need new stuff anyways, and your helping the community. Warm regards, The Robbers
that’s an extremely narrow minded view of this article. also completely out of context. I think this article is good for reminding those that may have forgotten that having a gun does not make you the police. it is your right to have it and protect yourself with it. knowingly entering into a situation where you may come to harm is not going to be viewed favorably in most courts, if any. we need more laws to protect the law abiding citizens, but until then know your limits within the law.
What this homeowner should have done is pulled over to the side of the street when he saw a suspicious vehicle in his driveway. …WWW.make69dollareveryhouronthecomputer.qr.net/j5Kq/C3?f-2013OM5U
Except for the fact that it was his property. If it was Chicago, the police wouldn’t even come until shots were fired. The fact of the matter is this, the law was wrong, not the homeowner. All states should change their laws in this area to reflect what already is in Texas. Don’t like that a homeowner can shoot a burglar dead as he runs away? Too bad, in Texas it’s actually encouraged as a means to lower crime, and it seems to be a darn good deterrent.
What part of Texas is shooting a burglar encouraged? I’ve lived in Texas my whole life and have heard MANY cases to the contrary. You, guest, are an idiot.
None of Jason’s blog posts are “good,” helpful or informative.
In this case it is helpful and informative. Judging by the number of replies I have read many don’t understand their CCW laws. Jason is absolutely correct by the legal definition for the use of deadly force. The homeowner would not be justified under as his life was not in danger at the time he fired the shots. Had he hit any of the suspects he would be facing criminal charges based on Federal laws. The use of deadly force can only be applied to defending a person not property.
He was not criticising the article or the author. He was moking the obsurdity of the law regarding the criminalzation of people standing up aginst criminals. While I do not advocate people throuwing rounds around indiscriminitely. The laws need to change regarding use of force. If you are violating my proporty I have the natural right to defend my proportyand If I shoot you inthe face it is your fault for doing the wrong thing to begin with.
I’m trying to figure out the point of this comment.
The point of the original article is to NOT chase after and fire upon a fleeing felon as long as your life is no longer in jeopardy. That point was well taken.
I realize the comment above by Totidem Verbis is dripping with sarcasm, but why is pertinant to this article? Is that because he thinks otherewise?
Totidem: Scenario you have just described, is Exactly what is now mandatory in most All European countries, Do NOT commit Violence against Any Home Invader or you WILL be imprisoned. Reading the countless hundreds of comments originating in European nations, on the ‘Piers Morgan’ anti-gun vid on you tube, Proves the insanity now seeping steadily throughout the Keynesian educated populace around the world. Reading this main story, it apparently is now entrenched within the legalities obsessed USA. NYS is considering (Bill) a $1 Million dollar insurance policy, to be Bought by Any Gun Owner. If that sets precedence, the ownership of Any gun is doa.
Never trust anyone who has ever been associate with the Criminal Intelligence Agency.
I’m sorry but if someone is robbing my house I am in fear of my life – plain and simple. I would never “assume” they DIDN’T have a weapon. The justice system is so f’ed these days its pathetic…
You’re not in fear of your life if someone is running away from you.
Exactly.
A gun is for DEFENSE, not shooting a fleeing criminal in the back…that is for the cops to do.
wrong, gun is to shoot criminal in the head, not the back.
Front of head, not the back when running away.
I’ll take it however I can get it. Bag of lime to get rid of the boddy too because calling a cop is the stupidest thing anyone can do, ever.
Not lime. Lime will preserve the body. You meant “Lye” because it eats up everything.
Thanx for the info.
Cops are there only to investigate after a crime is commented, not stop the crime, per the Supreme Court in 2005.
Another LOL. And then, OUR police dept. doesn’t even show up for a burglary.
and they will do it .they are above the law .they are the law
LOL.
I’m not agreeing with firing at someone that is fleeing from you – I’m simply pointing out that if someone is in my house(where I have firearms) I’m going to assume that they were able to somehow gain access to them – therefore my life or the lives of my family could possibly be in danger.
So what. Criminals should be shot on sight so we do not have to pay for their room, board and medical care indefinitley.
fuck justice.
A similar incident happened to me while on a date, the father of one of the young lady kids showed up at her house after we had got back from a date and started to jump on her. He told me to leave but his truck was blocking my car he repeatedly told me to leave and I repeatedly told him to move his truck. I called 911 told them what my problem was gave them the address instructed them I was license to carry and if he came at me I would fire. By this time he hears me on the phone and comes out of the house towards me taking off his shirt, I gave him a verbal warning , he still came at me and I fired one round from my Tauras 40 caliber into the air, he then goez to move his truck, the police arrive and I get arrested for discharging a firearm within the city limits, what did I do wrong ?
In most places you can not fire a warning shot in city limits. If you are in fear of your life your first shot should be the imminent threat. Other wise it’s brandishing .
You should have shot him. Shooting a warning is called “Brandishing” and even in Texas that is illegal. However, even on his property, if he was threatening his daughter with bodily injury, a hard call to make, in Texas, you are empowered to shoot him.
if he is coming at you, you have a right to fire on him as long as he poses a threat to you. If you tell him to stop or I will shoot you have to draw a line that if he crosses then you fire, not in the air ( where does the bullet come down) you always must assume that that person is armed and has the intent to cause harm. you must also, if given the time give that person a warning and hold him to that warning, if he still comes at you then you have no choise but to defend your self. again only if you feel threatened – the other thing is to call 911 and put your phone down so they will record what you are saying – be careful what you say because it will be held against you but that will also help you. Remember he broke the law but you should never give a warning shot in the air. the only time you should fire you gun (if not at a range) is if you intend to stop the threat once the threat is stopped thenm you must stop and wait for the police to get there. do not put your gun away hold it on that person a safe distance away. when the police come then you lower your weapon. remember the police already no that you have a firearm so they are expecting that. I live in the city as well and I called to talk with the police department and they explained what my rights are and how to handle issues.
due to the high cost of ammo – no warning shots
You fired a warning shot which is a crime in a lot of locations. Should have putthe dog down.
I live in Texas so I would cross my property line between the car and the front door and as they head for the car I will be afraid for my life and shoot both or all three of the bastards as they head toward me. If I miss and they are still on my property, I will get them with the next shot.
If I’m not mistaken in Texas you are within your rights to use deadly force to protect your property. At least you could when I lived there 10 years ago. Not so sure now, may have changed since then. imho
You are absolutely correct. But might as well have as many of the facts as possible in your favor when called to explain yourself. Technically, you could shoot a bugger in the back if he is carrying a newspaper that belongs to you and is still on your property as he runs away. BUT…I would not want to explain that to the judge.
Shooting someone in the back while they are fleeing from you is not an honorable act by any standards. Shooting to try and disable their vehicle is pretty stupid also, you could hit the gas tank and cause an explosion that kills them and ruins all your stuff, or worse a bullet could miss or richocet into an innocent bystander or cause the vehicle to crash causing property damage or injuries/fatalities. When holding the power of life and death in your hands, it is better to be calm and proceed systematically. Call the police, take pictures/video, tail them in your car at a safe distance while on the phone with a dispatcher. Make educated decisions while thinking about the possible outcomes of your actions. Going vigilante rambo style is not going to get you anything but frowns and jail time.
“honorable?” neither is B&E…and shooting the gas-tank making it explode only happens in H-wood…Mythbusters proved that years ago. Otherwise, the article is correct.
It is a childish fantasy that good guys ALWAYS meet bad guys face to face, & that back-shooting a felon is dishonorable. It is especially not true if one has just been robbed at gunpoint. He sets the rules of engagement when he robs you in your driveway, or forcibly enters your home & terrorizes your family. Insurance cannot replace the stolen feeling of security & safety one is entitled to feel within the walls of one’s home. I’m glad I’m not required, by law, to cower while my family suffers thru the “psychological rape” of a home invasion.
Truth be told, I doubt I would shoot at an unarmed burglar, particularly if he left empty handed; however if anyone were breaking INTO my occupied home, it would be foolish to wait and see if they were there only to steal, & not ruthless thugs, willing to assault or murder in furtheance of a criminal enterprise.
Breaking and entering, burglury are the dishonorable acts. Killing a criminal is justice.
This homeowner was wrong in all regards according to the info in this article. He should NEVER have confronted the perps as he could have lost his life over “property.” The Perps were “fleeing” so there was no imminent threat to the homeowner! He should NOT have shot at the car. With the guy coming out and shooting at him – No again becausethere was no threat to the homeowner. This guy needs to learn the laws!! You cannot defend property!! You wish you could but you can’t. Now if this was in a make my day law state and he was inside, then he should have taken the perps out the moment they made entry INTO the home as they had broken a law, there were 3-4 of them consisting of disparity of force, and he could claim that his life was threatened. Now he faces $10,000 in attorney fees and possibly a jail sentence. I will further use this in the concealed carry classes I teach – great example of homeowner stupidity!! The only exception to my comments – is if my family were at home, I would want to know what was going on and my gun would be out also!! but property….no!! Call the police and let them handle it!
I hope this happens to you so you can stand by your vallues.
The story is a little off. He got arrested for the last shot fired. Which happen to be in the presence of the police. The perp was on the ground and as the police was talking to the home owner he decided to flee. Home owner chased him and fired as he was going over a fence.
Yep. What kind of idiot chases after a guy and shoots at him in a populated neighborhood with the police on scene? IMHO, he should have gotten charged with attempted murder, because at that point, that’s what he was doing. At very least should have spent 30 days in jail and lost all rights to concealed carry for the rest of his life. Guys like that give the rest of us a bad reputation, and give the lunatic lefts more fuel on the fire.
Agree with Don Juan.
Thanks for that clarification on that. Ya, not smart to draw down on someone when the cops are already there.
Thanks Tony – This SHOULD have been included in the article – Threat had been neutralized therefore I agree – this homeowner is a moron.
Interesting, that changes things. Could you provide a link to the source with this info?
There should be written tests after the conceal/carry courses to see if you were paying attention. Using deadly force to protect “things” is never a good idea. I’m in no hurry to go to jail so unless I can see them holding a deadly weapon, or they try to attack me, they get to live to steal another day. If they are running from me, they get to live, unless they have already shot at me, maybe only then I’d consider shooting a fleeing suspect, but even then I doubt it. If it’s dark and I cannot see if they have a weapon, they better run fast. That could change everything.
In my CC course it was hammered in really hard by the instructor on the whole “unless your life or that of another is in imminent danger” thing. Also brought up was the fact that a permit doesn’t make you into a police officer.
This guy basically did everything wrong. He should have backed off, got descriptions and plate numbers, and called the cops.
Because criminals just stopat the last crime they commited and don’t ever go on to hurt anyone else.
Ihad my door broken in,fired a shot,got arrested,cops took all my guns($20,000),cops charged me with attemped murder,charges dropped,guns gone$12,000 to defense lawyer.
Hey guys & gals…This is just common sense…If they are running away…They are no longer a threat.
I’m not sure why you single out Texas, we’re no more allowed to fire at a fleeing suspect than anywhere else. Our training is very clear, you can’t be the aggressor in any situation, only defending life.
You need to study more….. has to do with what time it is….and what they are doing…
In Ohio. A bad guy could be carrying your TV out of your house. If you are not in danger, you can not shoot him. Now, if he is INSIDE your home or trying to come into your car, Ohio’s Castle Doctrine applies and one can use deadly force.
South of ABQ NM is a small town of Los Lunas. A propane business was frequently burglarized. Luke, the rancher had recently returned from serving in Iraq as an MP. He witnessed two men tearing up the business. They drove away after realizing he saw them. Luke was on the phone with 911, as he was recording the license plate number. The vehicle stopped and Gary, the ‘Ex Prison Guard’ with an extensive record, jumped out, running up to Luke’s window, punching through and pounding Luke’s face, as Luke was yelling at him, “I have a gun”!
One shot from Luke’s .380 and the ‘ex Prison Guard’ (Big man) dropped. Luke’s Military experience had seen people shot in the face and recognized ‘Gary Gabaldon’ was a dead man and his crime and drug days were over. Police arrested and imprisoned… Luke! Only by the prolific petitions from the ‘Real’ people across the county, to ‘drop all charges’, did the DA eventually, reluctantly release Luke. He now owes $25,000 in legal fees. Moral of story in today’s ‘Alice in Wonderland’? Keep driving past any ‘Incident’ while repeatedly saying to yourself… “I don’t see anything”…
No, moral of the story is keep a shucel in the trunk and never call the cops no matter what.
that’s why you aim for them without hesitation. . kill them and plant a weapon on them. .and claim small children and the puppy was in clear danger… hey, it’s what the government would do.
We;re supposed to be better than the scum in government and law enforcement.
keep in mind what you say/post digitally never goes away and if in the future you ever did that and the prosecutor found your comment, I don’t know how well things will go for you in court. just sayin’ big brother is watching us all and has been for many years. everything you say on a phone, everything you do online, is being monitored now. isn’t technology wonderful?
Hi all. In todays society we have to realize that we no longer have a “judicial” system. We have a Legal System… Just because he runs away with Your medicines and has stolen your identity is no reason to pursue him… Just make sure to take your time and report all of your stollen credit cards, bank statements, jewelry and get ready to spend a lot of time and money trying to recover from this intrusion!..
Paul Oberley. A Nevada Resident.
Now if you where a Senator Your bodyguard could have shot him for you..
My brother-in-law lawyer always corrects me when I use the term “justice system.” He insists that it’s the “legal system,” and he’s correct.
He missed his targets, That’s what he did wrong
The problem with this country is we are far to lax with criminals so they keep repeating their crimes. Then we jail innocent people or people with misdemeanors and other minor violations while kicking out felons for good behavior because it gets overcrowded. Prison is a business out to make money for the system and the courts.
Well, I have to admit Jason got this one right. We’re all going to be mad as hell in this situation but you simply cannot start shooting at someone who is running away. Even the cops can’t do that and I was in law enforcement for 28 years. I understand the intense anger of some of the posters but the laws are pretty universal on this one. Shoot someone running AWAY from you and be prepared to spend a long time in prison. It upsets me to . . . but it is what it is folks.
“However, when they tried to drive away he shot at the vehicle in
an attempt to disable it. What’s more, a burglar came out of the house
and ran when he saw the homeowner, and the homeowner chased after the
guy and ended up firing a shot.”
===
And THAT was the problem.
They were fleeing. IN most states thats a crime.
You dont shoot at someone who is no longer a threat…I dont care what state you live in…we are not vigilantes.
Sorry wrong. I live on my Indiana farm. In Indiana, I can shoot trespassers. I was involved in an incident in Las Vegas in the 80’s where a fleeing burglar was shot in the ass, we got our gun back and the detective threatened the rich mom to leave us alone. I would not shoot a man in the back. But if you’re in my house you’re in danger.
gay and stupid. first of all, the law need to ask themselves this fucking QUESTION. If they stole all of his 50 thousand dollars diamonds and took off. That isn’t enough proof that he is in danger for his life? 50000 dollars that he worked hard for just to give to a fucking stranger who he doesnt know and never even asked him for his money in the first place? The government gotta be fucking stupid. He shoulda shot the robber in the head.
Steal my money, steal my wife virginity, steal everything I ever own and then I will be in danger for my life. Nottttttttttttttttttttttttt, the government doesn’t give a shit. They lived so long they have lost their feelings for shit. Everything is the same to them.
Very good article. It’s called common sense.
Don’t forget that the homeowner held the burglar at gunpoint, and THEN when the police showed up the burglar tried to run away, and that’s when the homeowner chased him and fired a shot – all with the police present!!!!!
and that’s when the homeowner made his mistake. if police were on scene, let them fire the shots if any are needed.
I agree and disagree with whats said in this article, obviously Im not chasing after some burglar, however, if I see a suspicious car in the driveway, Yeah, Ill call the Police, but if I fear my wife and son are in danger, I dont care what Police say, Im going into my home, nuff said. I have the right to protect my life, my families life, my property and my home. If I kill some low life, so be it, better him than someone in my family, dumb ass should have picked a different house.
This is one of those things that keeps me thinking,I live in a town under 15k, use the same gas station which the full front of the building is glass,and I think what would I do if I looked in and saw a perp with a weapon in the face of the cashier.I know by law all I can do is pull my cell and call 911.I can do nothing.SAD
A perp holding a gun in the cashier’s face poses an immediate and obvious threat to the cashier’s life. You would have the right to shoot the perp in that case. (You’d probably still need a lawyer, though.)
Keep the same scenario but add the variable that his wife was in the house alone when he pulled up and noticed the burglars car parked out front. If he went in to secure the residence and ended up killing one or all the burglars, would he be risking jail?
Even in my State, good old MA where there are few pro-gun laws other than “the right to bear arms” when, and if, you can navigate the onerous process to get a permit allowing you to acquire them, there is a castle doctrine that can be used as a defense in a home invasion when: “it shall be a defense that the occupant was in his dwelling at the time of the offense.” The situation described by Jason would land you in jail most likely 100% of the time anywhere as has been stated by others as no gun law allows you to instantly deputize yourself and pursue perpetrators gun in hand no matter where you encounter them.
If you the criminal yes. Dumb ass!Will YOU Get Arrested During a Home Burglary?
I agree with Totidem completely! You should be able to stop people from taking your hard earned things just as much as defend yourself from harm. I dont believe you should be able to blindly fire away while running down the street after someone but if you just saw him run out of your house why can’t you chase him and safely put him down like the worthless dog he is?
.
Agree with what?
I only got his comment, dripping with sarcasm, but devoid of anything remotely pertaining to the article.
And you:
“…but if you just saw him run out of your house why can’t you chase him and safely put him down like the worthless dog he is?”
If you were to act on this fantasy of yours, you would be in for a heap of pain, pilgrim.
Spread the wealth around I always say…
In my CC class a few years ago I was taught in Kentucky it is only legal to shoot if your life or someone elses life is in danger or in a case of arson. This does not include someone running from you.
I think the article was right one the money..after reading some of the posts a few of you are going to need good lawyers..
1 he was in the drive way not in house no fear of life there he should have called 911
2 he said he went to his car to get his gun that just dbles #1 and adds premeditation
3 he approached the car that makes him the aggressor and holding a gun is agg assault
firing it at the car is attempted murder.
this guy fucked up all over the place he was clueless of the laws I am sure he will be learning them fast and the lesson will be a costly one
We all boast about our 2nd amendment rights and being a responsible gun owner part of that is knowing the laws in your area.. If you do shoot shoot to kill dead people do not have their side of the story to tell.
You are missing the point entirely. These criminalsa re allowed to get away and steal another day. The 2nd Amendment allows you to not only protect yourself, but also your PROPERTY. Its not there to “scare people off” or “chase people away”. Yes, he didnt know the law, but the point many people are making is that the law is stupid.
More laws that serve only to rescue criminals and endanger victims in their future. Absolutely brilliant lawmaking. This country, this world is insane.
I’m glad I live in Texas where I can protect myself and my belongings. The people in this country have grown weak and helpless. Let them get away is your best answer? This only makes repeat offenders. Guy robs house gets away.. later gets caught.. goes to jail.. gets out and does the same thing.. If the homeowner would have shot the bastard to begin with there would be no repeat offender.. The theif would be a dead offender.
No, what he should have done is double tapped both of them in the face, and tell the cops they charged him with a weapon.
If he noticed the car in the drive way, why not use your own car to block it in/ disable it before confronting them? Then call the police and engage them? Individuals on foot aren’t going to get very far especially when you have their means of escape and the element of surprise…
If you think Arthur`s story is really cool…, five weaks-ago my aunt brought in $7069 just sitting there 10 hours a week from home and they’re roomate’s mom`s neighbour has done this for seven months and brought in over $7069 in there spare time from there mac. follow the guide at this site… jump15.comCHECK IT OUT
Return from vacations to find someone “moved” you out even taking my 2 vehicles as the keys were inside the home, go to the cops and they tell you theres absolutly nothing they can do for you and about it, not even lift prints, go to your home and investigate. That happened to me when I lived in PR. Many here comment without experincing anything similar thats why SOME of you post such stupid comments. I most likely would have shot at them if I had the chance.
If you think Ralph`s story is amazing…, a month-back my aunt brought in $7436 working a fourty hour month in their apartment and there co-worker’s mom`s neighbour was doing this for five months and earnt more than $7436 part-time from their laptop. follow the tips on this page… jump15.comCHECK IT OUT
So what happens when you let them go and you read in the paper a few days later that the bad guys broke into another home and killed the four family members which included 2 young children. Sit back and say sure am glad it wasn’t me. Oh…I fully understand the need to retreat and not take action, but that does not save a single life. You bet…I will allow them to get away and kill someone elses’ family rather than risk my ass for shooting em.
upto I saw the check 4 $6776, I did not believe that…my… neighbours mother could actualy receiving money parttime on-line.. there best friend haz done this for only about fourteen months and resently cleared the morgage on their home and got a brand new Alfa Romeo. I went here, jump15.comCHECK IT OUT
STFU – Spammer
if you were outlaw running from the cops they will shoot you run over you with there car all in the name of the law . but you cant do anything to stop them if they run away from you
Uh wait a sec, I thought we were able to defend life AND property?
Your comment about Texas was uncalled for. I am a Texas and a Florida CHL instructor and even we “gunslingers” in Texas CANNOT do what the idiot in Utah did. In this state if you are not in IMINENT fear of seriously bodily injury, death, kidnap or rape. We in Texas live by the same basic rules as those in Utah.
I teach to never use lethal force unless it is your ONLY option. Never use lethal force in defense of property unless it is in your home. Outside of the home, just don’t do it.
If the remark you made about Texas is the extent of your knowledge about our laws then I suggest you use your CIA skills and do research on our laws. I lived in Utah for over twelve years and I can say the people in Texas obey the lethal force laws as well as people do anywhere.
Again your remark was uncalled for!
Utah ain’t Texas. Our laws are different. We can shoot to protect life “and property” and will. Sometimes, the stuff they’re stealing is used for a persons livelihood and if they lose that and can’t afford to replace it right away, they go on the street. Darned right I’m shooting at the bastards.
unfortunately it very hard for a police to fire on a fleeing felon today
inside the house is another story but know your state law to be safe theirs a few state here like england who says to retreat if possible and let the criminal have your things
I think that the first shot (into the engine block,) was perfectly reasonable. A motor vehicle is 1.5 tons or so of steel and fiberglass moving at a high rate of speed. That is a dangerous weapon. The homeowner just startled two crooks who were attempting to drive off. If I were the homeowner, I would worry that the crooks were going to use the car to eliminate me both a threat and a witness.
I feel angry at what happened to the homeowner. My anger subsided somewhat when I read the first sentence, “Unless you live in the state of Texas….”. Now I’m reminded of why I live in Teaxs!