Well, my wife and I are getting ready to attend a Sig Sauer Academy handgun training course in New Hampshire and must fly from Florida into Boston, MA near the Academy. We are considering taking our own handguns and ammo with us for class and do everything safely, “by the book” legally, not lose our guns, and not take a lot of extra time. Even if we were not attending a training course but were traveling to a state that has reciprocity with our CCW License state, why not take our guns for “what if” situations?The Academy can loans us guns and sell us ammo, but we might use what we’re comfortable with and already have on hand. So, we decided to pre-plan as much as possible. We had several questions and there is information travelers with guns need to know. We made a long list of our questions, called TSA and United Airlines, and asked several questions of two very nice, patient, and knowledgeable agents. I want to share what I learned with you to help you and save you some aggravation if you fly with guns and ammo. Know that with limited exceptions for law enforcement officers (who may fly armed by meeting requirements of CFR 1544.219, Carriage of Accessible Weapons), all firearms, ammunition, and firearm parts may only be transported in checked baggage.
First, I went to the TSA website and got some good information, but a lot of it was general and did not address some specifics that I wanted answered. Also, I learned that these gun travel rules change FREQUENTLY, so check for current updates when you fly with guns. Also, there are certain limited exceptions for law enforcement officers. Here is the website address for you and some of the information I got there:
TSA: http://www.tsa.gov/traveler-information/firearms-and-ammunition
1. Travelers may only transport UNLOADED firearms in a locked, hard-sided container as checked baggage. All firearms, ammunition and firearm parts, including firearm frames, receivers, pepper spray, clips and magazines are prohibited in carry-on baggage. (I knew this.)
- BB guns, pellet guns, replica guns, starter guns, flare guns, & parts of guns MUST also be checked.
- Place your hard-sided case inside of your locked SUITCASE (with TSA-approved lock.)
2. Realistic replicas of firearms are also prohibited in carry-on bags and must be packed in checked baggage. Rifle scopes are permitted in carry-on and checked bags. (I did not know this.)
3. In addition to TSA security rules on transporting firearms, airlines, as well as state, local and international governments have additional rules that may vary by location. (They DO vary a lot, especially by AIRLINES.) Please check with your airline and with states, cities, and countries you will be traveling to and from to become familiar with their requirements and ensure you are compliant with their laws.
Here are some Guidelines to help you in packing your firearms and ammo for travel:
- ALL firearms MUST be DECLARED up front to the airline during the ticket counter check-in process. Each airlines has their own Form. (We are going to get the short Form early to complete to save time.)
TIP: Don’t slip and say “I have a gun” for obvious reasons. The Agent or you PLACE the DECLARATION FORM inside your luggage or GUN CASE (varies by airline) and LOCK everything up. YOU keep the key or combination.
- The firearm MUST be UNLOADED including the MAGAZINE.
- As defined by 49 CFR 1540.5 – “A loaded firearm means a firearm that has a live round of ammunition, or any component thereof, in the chamber or cylinder or in a magazine inserted in the firearm.”
- The firearm MUST be in a HARD-SIDED container that is LOCKED, as required by Federal Regulation 49 CFR 1544.203. A locked container is defined as one that completely secures the firearm from being accessed. Locked cases that can be pulled open with little effort cannot be brought aboard the aircraft. I was told it can be the usual hard plastic gun case and that a combination lock or keyed padlock is acceptable for the gun case (does not have to be a TSA lock.) Travelers with firearms MUST sign the Form saying that the firearm(s) are checked as baggage, are unloaded, and packed in a hard-sided locked container. Then the Agent must also sign the Form.
To the right is a Delta Airlines Form that my wife signed on the reverse side on her recent trip from San Francisco-Sacramento, CA to Pensacola, FL traveling with a firearm. She purchased a small metal lockable box by SentrySafe at Wal Mart for $12 that was plenty big to easily hold 2 handguns, magazines, etc. You can also pay much more and get a Pelican Storm Case or a GunVault Nano Vault. We also have used the small metal box to travel with ammo. It easily holds 10 boxes of 50 rounds each of 9mm ammo, with a total ammo weight of a little over 14 pounds. That weight means you would have to pay extra because you went over the usual airline 11 pound ammo weight limit each. So, you might want to travel with 7 or 8 boxes of ammo max to avoid extra charges. More about this below. I suggest taping your ammo boxes shut to prevent any accidental spillage.
- The airlines are VERY SERIOUS about these requirements and will detain and delay you if any questions arise, especially if firearms are not properly Declared or packaged.
- If a locked gun container alarms during screening and is not marked as containing a Declared firearm, TSA will cut the lock in order to resolve the alarm.
- Travelers MUST securely PACK any ammunition in fiber (such as cardboard), wood, or metal boxes or other packaging specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition. I asked and was told that the ammo may be in any case designed to hold ammo, like my plastic ammo cans that hold bulk ammo.
- Firearm magazines and ammunition clips, whether loaded or empty, MUST be securely boxed or included within a hard-sided case containing an unloaded firearm.
- Small arms ammunition, including ammunition not exceeding .75 caliber for a rifle or pistol and shotgun shells of any gauge, may be carried in the same hard-sided case as the firearm, as long as it follows the packing guidelines described above. Realize that while TSA regulations DO allow ammo to be packed in the same locked container as the unloaded firearm, NOT all airlines allow this.
- TSA prohibits black powder or percussion caps used with black-powder.
- Rifle scopes are not prohibited in carry-on bags and do not need to be in the hard-sided, locked checked bag.
After digesting all of these “MUST” requirements online, I still had questions so I called the TSA at 1-866-289-9673. The TSA agent was very friendly and repeated the above information and gave me some other information.
He told me there are NO TSA fees associated with bringing a firearm on an airline. He told me you can have at least 2 pistols in your checked luggage if inside a hard-case locked container for guns. If any more are desired, he said check with the airline. He said there are no TSA Declaration Forms, but each Airlines has its own form and they are different. Mainly, he said that EACH PERSON with a gun MUST complete one initially and DECLARE their guns to the ticket agent. He said the ammo AND guns can be packed together in a gun case or separately, but just NOT inside the mag or chamber and the ammo must be packed solidly in a suitable container made for ammo. He recommended NOT having the empty mag inside the magwell like it’s ready to fire, because they will treat it as if it is loaded and probably will further inspect and delay you. He said the mags can be in the same gun case as the firearm. He said there are NO TSA limits on the amount of ammo you may bring, but that individual airlines DO have ammo weight limits that vary. A firearm in a locked HARD-sided container may be placed inside SOFT-sided luggage. My wife just did that on her recent trip from Sacramento, CA to Pensacola, FL with Delta Airlines without problems. She had another option of placing her firearm DIRECTLY inside her locked, HARD-sided luggage WITHOUT it being encased in a separate locked container. Again, check with your airline.
With that in mind, I visited the United Airlines’ website and the firearms section at:
http://www.united.com/web/en-US/content/travel/baggage/sports.aspx. Then, I called United Airlines at 1-800-241-6522 to verify the same information the TSA agent told me and to learn United’s requirements and limitations. United Airlines limits you to 11 pounds of ammo EACH. The agent said the number of rounds of ammo is not a problem, but the weight of the ammo is. If you go over the 50 pound limit on a checked bag, the extra fee is $100 up to 70 pounds, then higher. So, I weighed my ammo (different brands) and here is what I found (approximately):
1 box of 50 9mm ammo = 1.45 pounds
2 boxes of 50 9mm ammo = 3.05 pounds
5 boxes of 50 9mm ammo = 8.00 pounds
10 boxes of 50 9mm ammo = 15.10 pounds
It is required that we each bring a minimum of 250 rounds (5 boxes) for our training course, so with the United 11 pound ammo limit EACH we are fine, according to the United Airlines agent. But, we have to consider the weight of the 3 mags for each of us, speed loaders, hearing protection muffs, range bag, range clothing, and other necessary equipment, etc. Just know we will go over the weight restrictions and have to pay more for the added weight. So it goes. Also, the agent told me NO Curbside Check-In of firearms is permitted and firearms are accepted only from a paying customer who is 18 years of age or older. She told me the slide does NOT have to be locked open nor have a safety flag in it. The agent said that I probably would be escorted to a private area/room and be present when the Agent opens my gun case to inspect it with my key or combination. Then the Agent will return the key to me. This will take an extra 30-45 minutes, so she recommended that we arrive even earlier than the hour prior for this process.
I must mention that someone from the Academy mentioned that some of the northern states are more strict than others about handling and dealing with shipment of firearms and those who travel with firearms…. that I should be prepared for this and possible delay. Some even suggested that I NOT bring my own guns and ammo to the training because of the extra time and hassel involved. For example, the NRA Institute for Legislative Action (ILA) has issued a special advisory for New York and New Jersey airports. Authorities at JFK, La Guardia, Newark, and Albany airports have been known to enforce state and local firearms laws against airline travelers who are passing through the jurisdiction, despite federal law that protects travelers. I have heard from some that even persons traveling in full compliance with federal law have been arrested or threatened with arrest, but litigation is ongoing. So travelers should strictly comply with the Firearm Owners Protection Act (FOPA) for their “Safe Passage” and check laws and regulations at your destination before traveling. “I didn’t know it was illegal” will NOT work.
I suppose we could ship our guns and ammo ahead there, but still might be more time, cost, and trouble. I do fully support the intent of the strict policies, guidelines, and rules and will comply without hesitation. The minor inconvenience is a small price to pay for the major benefit, priority, and overall goal of protecting ourselves and diverting any possible trouble from weirdos or terrorists. Something to think about for all of us. Some final tips: If you can avoid it, do NOT fly with high-value firearms; write down the serial numbers of firearms you are transporting and keep the list separately with you; check the airline’s firearms insurance policy (usually very limited) regarding theft, damage, and replacement ; and check your luggage with the firearm inside immediately upon arrival at your destination; and report missing or stolen luggage with firearms inside immediately.
Hope this helps you and remember to double check this information as it changes frequently, by jurisdiction, and by airline.
Continued success!
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Great info but I must caution you to call the AG’s office in Mass as well. Their own state laws may prevent you from transporting your handguns, even if you are going to SIG. The FOPA Act covers travellers during an ‘uninterrupted journey’. If your flight originates in a location you are legal, and you flight terminates in a place where you are legal, you are fine. BUT, as you are landing in Mass and taking possession of the luggage there (and subsequently flying OUT of Mass, thus having to declare the handguns when leaving, you MAY be in violation of the local laws.
Check first….forearmed is forewarned!
Good luck and have fun at SIG!
Please be careful in MA. Dave has a point. You might want to fly into Manchester, NH instead.
Negotiating Massachusetts’ guns and ammunition laws by a non-resident who does not hold a non-resident Massachusetts carry permit is like threading 10 needles with one piece of thread, in the dark, blindfolded, without ever moving your fingers on the thread. If things were to go wrong for you, they could prosecute you for the mere possession of a single empty shell casing, as a felony. Take Sig up on their offer to supply all materials, guns and ammo included.
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Just from my experience as somebody who flies with firearms several times a year, I’ve never had the firearm screening take more than 15 minutes. In many smaller airports, they don’t even bring you to the back room to do the once over before sending the bag through the x-ray. AUS/DEN/SEA/RDU are the only airports that have had me open the case so they can visually see that the gun and mags are not loaded.
have you ever flown into MASS? I bet not!
One instructor gave similar info but said to NOT use a TSA approved lock since they can open your suitcase and steal your gun. When the agent inspects your suitcase and gun case, they’ll put an “inspected” tag on your bag so no further inspection is needed.
Any other comment on that? is that true or not? I’d rather NOT have a lock that a TSA agent can open as we’ve seen so many incidents where TSA folks have stolen travelers items.
Do not turn your back on the TSA agent do not take your eyes off your suitcase until it is gone . I had one take my open bag to a table then turn his back to me ignore my open gun case and act like he was doing something important . until he turned and saw me standing there glaring ht him arms folded,, Then had the nerve to tell me to move out of the way. Thieves Stay on your toes .
Just fly into Manchester NH. It is only a 30 min drive to Sig and you dont have to deal with the crazy MA laws. Plus you can buy Ammo anyplace here in NH on the way to sig.
Good recap. Some notes on transporting on airlines:
(1) some airlines in the U.S. allow proper transport of ammo in magazines but most don’t. Two who do allow are Frontier and Southwest (big surprise, right?). I carry the airlines rules printed out in case I need reinforcement of their own policies, but I also carry empty ammo carriers in case an agent gets a bug up their butt about it.
(2) the TSA doesn’t care how much ammo you carry but almost all the airlines do, following international (but not national) guidelines. No more than 5 kg/11 lb per traveler. Also the TSA doesn’t care how many arms travel with you but every airline has their own policy. Check the website!
(3) the airlines seem to echo the TSA’s rules about ammo packaging, specifically, “Travelers must securely pack any ammunition in fiber (such as cardboard), wood or metal boxes OR OTHER PACKAGING specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition.” When I declare I have firearms I usually also add that the ammo is “properly packaged.” I travel so much that the original cardboard boxes for my carry ammo have long since disintegrated. I went to Bass Pro and got plastic ammo carriers. Once in a while I’ll have a ticketing agent ask me if the ammo is in its original packaging, to which I declare no, but it is “properly packaged.” That seems to satisfy their curiosity.
(3) if you use a small, hard-sided and lockable case to transport your pistol inside a piece of luggage I highly recommend using that cable that came with the case to secure the case to internal structure of the luggage. I partially unzip the liner and wrap the cable around the channel that holds the extendable handle. That way if someone tries to steal it by unzipping the bag (locked your bag with an approved TSA lock? Easy to bypass: (YouTube it) but they can’t remove the case without proper tools
(4) use a TSA-approved lock on the outside of your luggage. It keeps the honest honest and somewhat slows down someone who really wants inside your bag (again, see the YouTube link above). Do NOT use TSA-approved locks on your firearm case! Only you are allowed to control the key/combination although you may briefly give the key to a TSA agent so they can open it, if they want to. You are supposed to go with the key but the agents don’t always follow that rule
(5) do NOT put a laptop in the same suitcase. Every time I have the TSA wanted to open the bag to check for explosives, and rarely do when I don’t put a laptop in there
(6) do NOT use a skycap to check your firearm(s)-laden bags. You must go to the counter
(7) after checking your bag(s) WAIT in near the area in case the TSA wants to open the luggage up. 5-10 minutes should suffice. Budget the time going to the counter and waiting for the bag into your plans
(8) you must declare your firearm that is in your checked bags to the airline. I simply start out by telling the airline agent, “I am declaring an unloaded firearm and a small amount of ammunition.” The agent will hand you a small card to sign, and will then tell you where to put it, usually either inside the gun case or immediately outside it. Some agents want to observe the firearm(s) is/are unloaded, the rest don’t care. After all, that’s what you are declaring by signing that card
(9) I usually don’t break down the firearm nor do I put a gun lock on it. Do whatever makes you feel more comfortable
(10) for some great additional recommendations about airline travel check out a locksmith by the handle of Deviant Ollum either at his website (deviating dot net), or search for him on YouTube
Hey, troll?
What’s the hold up?
Weren’t you supposed to list the reasons that Reid
blocked those bills? You said you were “checking other sources” FIVE
DAYS ago.
Did you really think you could post links that NEVER
ANSWERED THE QUESTION you were asked and that you’d just skate by
without being called on it by me?
LOL … that’s not gonna work!
Did you run out of conservative links to check and not a single one of them told you why?
Funny how I found a reason in 10 seconds of searching though, eh?
It’s as if your conservative media isn’t telling you things that I can easily find in my sources!
I’ll
wait for those reasons and keep calling you out on thread after thread
until either you list them or admit that you’re clueless on this topic.
Real Address ?
I have flown from Houston to Seattle 3 times over the past 2 and a half years checking one of my two normal carry guns each time. I use a $20 little locking box with a cable attached to the chasis of my soft sided no name luggage. The box has a foam lining, I cut out a square just the right size for a 25 round box of JHP. Never had any problem about the ammo and the unloaded pistol being in the same box. Flew Southwest twice, Alaska once. Each time the procedure was almost identical, check in at the automated kiosk, when I brought my luggage up I told them that I needed to fill out a firearms declaration. They give me the little card, I fill it out, with Alaska they ask you to put the form in the lock box (doesn’t make much sense, but their house, their rules) Southwest tapes it on the outside of the box. In Houston, they take it behind the wall at the check in counter, you wait 5 minutes, and someone comes out and tells you everything is good to go. In Seattle, they have you take it to another baggage screener, he takes custody of it and you’re on your way. Each time, I’ve arrived at my destination, got my checked bag and everything is there, with no problems. It’s literally that easy, as long as you show up early (and the airlines now say you should be there 2 hours early, you are there 2 hours early aren’t you?) you should be fine.
Dave is correct. You likely will be in violation if you land in MA, NJ, NY or CT and WILL be arrested and your firearms confiscated. It has happened before and, on average, cost $50,000 to win your case through the appellate level. Do not risk it. Use Sig’s guns or fly to NH.
We finally escaped from NJ, but MA, NY and CT are just as bad. We won’t go to or through any of them except in an emergency.
I drove from Chicago to Atlanta with a Ruger SR9 concealed for my drive to delivered a truck and equipment to a jobsite and was flying home. I was flying Southwest and declared the firearm at the ticket counter, the lady was very nice while she inspected the firearm to see it was unloaded and asked me about ammo. I told her I had one box in a hard plastic case in the side pocket of my luggage. My empty mags were in the case with the gun. She filled out the form I locked the case and she put a SWA seal on it and sent me and my bag over to the TSA bag screener who just did a swab of the zipper and handles. TSA agent was cool as well. If your doing it right it should go smooth. I will be flying and taking mine with me again.
IN REALITY THERE IS, IN THIS DAY AND TIME, TO ‘SAFELY’ TRANSPORT FIREARMS! ROGUE GOVERNMENT CONTROL YOU WILL RECALL.
I’ve always heard that you do NOT have a TSA lock on the gun case and that you keep possession of all the keys.
On the suitcase containing the hard case, yeah, TSA lock.
Makes me scratch my head a bit, but OK….flying is an optional mode of travel.
I have heard of people who with a properly declared weapon in their checked bag, were diverted from their destination elsewhere, because of weather or equipment failures to Newark NJ airport. At Newark, the airline gave them their checked bags, immediately upon taking possession of their bag they were arrested for illegal weapons possession punishable in NJ by 10 to 20 years in prison.
Word is you must not accept custody of a bag with a firearm in the state of NJ. Insist the airline forward your bag to your destination without you taking possession!
If driving through NJ in a car, weapons must be unloaded and in a separate locked compartment from the gun (not a glove box or console compartment readily accessible by passengers). Guns could be loose in a trunk or SUV rear compartment as long as ammo is locked in some kind of separate ontainer. I would suggest that they not be visible in the event you had to change a tire. Before entering NJ, safety check you car to insure all lights and marker lights operate properly and are undamaged. Lastly buy enough fuel before entering NJ, and don’t make any stops. Under current NJ law it is illegal for even a resident in possession all required permits, registrations, and meeting all transport laws to stop for any reason going to and from a range where they are a member. You are just supposed to pee in your pants! And don’t break down or have an accident, you may be arrested and your weapons confiscated! If you are stopped by the police for any reason while transporting a weapon, take the fifth and refuse to answer questions and never ever submit to a search.
Yes in NJ guns are banned except with a couple of exceptions that require expensive and extensive government approvals and permits, even so the law is written such that if you are discovered in possession of a weapon, even if you have all the proper permits you are assumed guilty of felony weapons possession. You lawyers responsibility to prove otherwise!
Firearms checking procedures are not consistently applied, even for the same airline. This summer, a buddy and I were to take a firearms course in Nevada. I flew out on United from Fort Walton Beach, FL airport and he flew out on United from Pensacola airport. I carried two handguns and an AR-15 plus ammo in a single hard sided case. He had the same firearms less the ammo. I got through without issue. He was prohibited from checking his firearms because the United employee stated “each firearm had to be in a separate case”. Although my buddy contacted TSA and they confirmed to the United employee that more the one firearm can be in a single case, United would not let him check the case. He ended up missing the training class because a United employee decided to impose her own version of United’s policy.
I suggest to all travelers checking firearms that you go to your airline’s website and find and copy their written policy on checking firearms. Keep a copy in your firearms case.
I flew Delta last month out of Springfield Missouri and had to show the ticket agent that the tsa sight that said any packaging designed for carrying ammo. He was trying to tell me only original packaging. Which is absurd in my opinion. Original boxes do not wear well for traveling. Make sure you know local laws and TSA requirements as ticket agent DO NOT.
Print out and carry the TSA and particular airline policies and carry them with you when you travel. Asking for a supervisor should also help.
Beware if you are flying a complex itinerary in which your connecting flights are NOT all with the same airline. Unless all your segments are with the same airline, if you are checking in baggage that contains a firearm you might not be allowed to check that baggage all the way through to your final destination. I was on a 2-segment flight that started with American and continued with Alaska with an airport in between in a state that was politically seriously anti-gun. At check in for the first flight the American agent refused to check my baggage through to my final destination even though American and Alaska are airline partners … they told me that it was against their “policies” to do so. Once my American flight completed, I had to go down to American baggage claim, get my bag, and then check in again with Alaska and go through the TSA thing all over again. I was just lucky that I had enough time between flights to get this done or else I would have been in serious trouble. I had no problems but I was sweating it out for a while.
I simplify things – I don’t fly with my guns! If it’s too far to drive to, I don’t need to go.
just remember….if you are ever flying over NYS with a handgun…and you are forced to land there (ie Weather, maintenance or medical emergency) and you have to stay overnight. You will be arrested when you return to the airport or go though check-in with your handgun. Which is why I would never fly with a regulated firearm. You never know where you will end up landing.
Another very fine article. While I personally refuse to go near airports because of what I consider to be intrusive and ignorant behavior on the part of too many TSA agents and increasingly rude treatment by airlines in general, your information should be deemed helpful indeed for those who wish to travel by air. While it’s definitely possible to travel by air with a firearm, I have found there are just too many cities, airlines and TSA officials with vastly different policies that seem to be all over the place. Just more trouble than it’s worth for me personally.
As another poster, Robert McCabe, said earlier . . . I too do not fly anymore. I love driving and seeing our scenic nation from the ground where I have total control on my travel. Also, I hold concealed weapon clearance in 37 states along with my LEOSA certification as a retired peace officer so that is how I choose to travel.
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” airlines, as well as state, local and international governments have additional rules that may vary by location”
Actually, no, airlines are not allowed to add additional rules. The TSA amended the firearm transport rules after they were first enacted to prevent exactly that, so the procedure is the same everywhere.
very naive and very bad advise! fly into NY, NJ, CT, MASS with your weapon and then try to fly out of there will earn you a ride to jail, GUARANTEED!
Who are you talking to? I didn’t give any advise.
I would never take my firearms into NY,NJ, or MA. Hence I would never travel there. TSA Fed law means nothing if the state or local authorities come after you. Herr Holder is going to protect your gun rights? LOL.
Good luck with Mass.
It’s one state you don’t want to be found in violation in .
One must also be prepared for a possible airline diversion. The USCCA recently published a story of a guy whose flight was diverted to NY instead of his home airport. When he legally declared his handgun at the NY Airport, he was arrested! Tim Schmidt came to his rescue but it is a contingency that should be considered when one travels by air.
in Mass they will probably arrest you for weapons possession, have a nice trip and fly via manchester NH
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Too bad if your caught in MA with guns and no Valid LTC your behind is getting locked up! The “competition” excuse wouldn’t work fir Sig Acad. since it’s not in MA. The Airport and car pickup/switch would take FOPA out of the equation.
-From MA