The Trayvon Martin Killing

The Trayvon Martin Killing

The Trayvon Martin Killing

I’ve gotten a lot of questions about the Travyon Martin killing down in Florida. Today, I’m going to discuss that incident, along with how it relates to what I wrote about last week (jumping on top of a dumpster to escape a pack of dogs.)

First off, it seems there are still a lot of facts that we don’t know. When I first heard about the incident, it appeared Zimmerman (the shooter) made the wrong decision and I thought he was definitely going to jail.

But yesterday, I was reading about how Martin had pushed him to the ground and had tried to take the gun. Supposedly, Zimmerman was bleeding and had bruises to prove it and another eyewitness saw Martin push Zimmerman to the ground. I also found out that even though Martin was only 17 years old, he was 6’3” and a pretty big guy.

Now, if Martin did try and take the gun from Zimmerman and Zimmerman was in fear for his life, then I believe he was justified in shooting Martin. However, if Zimmerman simply chased Martin down and shot him for no good reason, then obviously he should go to jail.

Again, I think there are still a lot of facts to come out and we don’t know the full story.

But here’s what I do know: Zimmerman could have walked away. He didn’t have to follow Martin and he could have listened to the dispatcher who told him not to follow the boy.

In other words, if you’re so worried about a suspicious person that you feel the need to call the police on them, then you should not follow them and you should wait for the police to come and do their job. I’m sure if you asked Zimmerman today if he wishes he had waited, he would no doubt answer “yes.”

The problem is, there are a lot of people (men) in this country who are insecure and feel the need to act tough. When I wrote last week about how I ran from the dogs, I had a few people use inappropriate language to discuss how they felt I reacted to the situation.

Yes, I realize I could have faced the dogs and they might have backed down, but why would I take that chance when a better option would be to get on top of a dumpster? I am highly confident in my abilities to defend myself, but any day of the week I will get out of a situation (if it’s an option) so that I don’t have to put those abilities to the test.

The fact is, all of us are human and have “macho” urges we need to learn how to resist.

If you see a suspicious person, don’t try and be a hero and go confront them. If somebody flips you the middle finger on the highway, you have to force yourself not to yell at them and flip them off in response.

I realize this isn’t easy. Trust me, when someone cuts me off in traffic, I would love to give them a piece of my mind too. But I remind myself that I’m carrying a gun and that I need to act responsibly and let it go.

I guess what I’m really trying to say this week is to have self-discipline… to not be a hero… and to be secure with yourself so you don’t feel the need to show others (and yourself) how tough you are. Had Zimmerman shown self-discipline and let the police do their jobs, a 17-year-old boy may not have lost his life.

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  • I agree with you Jason.   There are still lots of missing facts but Zimmerman should have just listened to the police to stop.   They were just seconds away and he had done his job.  What I really want to say here is Zimmerman didn’t do the rest of us any favors, as we are all trying very hard to get concealed weapons permits accepted and honored.   Stupid incidents like this set us back every time.    

    • kerb

      Very true.

      I would just like to add that the media should be ashamed of themselves.  Half truths and misrepresentation abound.  That hasn’t helped us either.

    • Cobra is right.   Many of us are working really hard to gain acceptance with concealed carry across the nation.   This did us no favors at all, especially with several important bills in front of Congress right now that are attempting to relax concealed carry.   The timing was horrible.   You did us no favors here Zimmerman.

    • If the police were just seconds away then they should have been there when the shooting occurred.  Seems more like they were minutes away.  I haven’t seen the timelines together.  I used to work in a publuc safety access point (911, police and fire dispatch in one location.  Everything is recorded.  Hopefully their time clocks were all synchronized.  It’s common to pull all the tapes and dispatch records.  Hopefully it’s been done.  It’s easy to judge George from the comfort of our homes but we weren’t there.  I’m sure George wishes he had done some things differently.  If he was attacked as he reportedly says he was, then it was justifialble.  Trayvon could have walked away as well, he wasn’t shot in the back.  How often do we hear of a perceived disrespectful act ending in death.   I don’t know what kind of person Trayvon was.  Maybe he thought he would teach George some respect.  The police, FBI et al will hopefully uncover the truth.

  • Computerman

    What I heard was Zimmeraman did listen to the dispatcher and stopped. He tuned to go back to his vehicle when Martin jumped out of nowhere and attacked him. And as you know Zimmerman was on the ground. Also why wasn’t Martin behind bars. He shouldn’t have even been there. He was suspended from school for having mariguanna. (sp). Why wasn’t he arrested then?

  • Cris

    But wasn’t Zimmerman the Neighborhood Watch guy? His role is to keep an eye on suspicious people until the police arrive…

  • Mark

    Sharpton and Jackson should be held accountable for the deliberate disinformation they’re spewing!

  • fatmuscle2

    Please read current updates to the case before making statements.  This is part of the problem now is all the commentaries without all the information.  We are all doing a disservice by reacting without proper understanding or information. 

  • What if and i say this openly what if Zimmerman would have complied and not fowllowed and then Martin broke into a house robbed someone and police couldnt locate him because he was in hidding ? what now and what would be the use of watch program. flip side he could of followed and stayed his distance i do believe.

  • AirBear

    Police did not tell him to stop following, police dispatcher said ” We don’t need you to do that”
    The option was left up to Zimmerman. Like the rest of us, I am not privy to the facts, so will refrain from forming an educated opinion.

  • Thank you, Jason for refusing to perpetuate the polarizing racial aspects of this sad situation and for not using it as a blind, pro-gun at any cost, platform. I couldn’t agree more with your argument for responsibility and discipline. I have a friend, that also happens to be my firearms instructor. One of his mantras is: “You win every gun fight you don’t go to.”

    • Catfan63

       Lauren- that is a great thought to remember and dwell upon! Patience is such a virtue. Thanks for that!

    • Wyobo

      I sure agree with the gunfight win you mentioned. A gunfight should be avoided if at all possible, short of the safety of your family or yourself.

    • Orange Shooter

       Excellent post to an outstanding article by Mr. Hanson.  Unfortunately, too often tragedies like this one tend to polarize us into camps of black versus white, right-wing nutcases versus left wing pinkos, and yes, sadly, Red versus Blue.  A belief in the right to keep and bear arms (and to use them judiciously) is more and more cutting across all ethnic AND political groups, and it is not helpful when my fellow Second Amendmenters immediately jump at such an incident to rail against Democrats, left wing kooks, or Obama.  That type of attitude ultimately restricts our support and hurts our cause.

  • Onetuza

    First of all, you don’t know that Z didn’t head back to his truck when told “we don’t need you to do that”. (“But here’s what I do know: Zimmerman could have walked away. “)

    • Donnie

      How do you know he did not walk away and was preparing to get into his vehicle when Martin approached him and proceeded to beat the crap out of him?
      When he saw someone that seemed suspicious (not a known neighbor) should he have ignored it?  What is the role of a neighborhood watch?  Only watch from the safety of your house?  See, call 911, run away?
      I don’t know what the situation was, but I am not going to jump to the conclusion that Zimmerman was acting irresponsible until I know more.

  • b2359

    From the sparse facts available right now, it appears Zimmerman exceeded
    the Castle Doctrine when he left his home in pursuit of suspicious
    character.  He exceeded Castle when he was advised by police dispatcher to stop the pursuit. 

    Discharging a weapon should be the last choice of all the intelligent choices available.
     

  • Steve

    Jason,

    You are absolutely correct on all counts.  Having the ability to defend oneself does not mean doing it instead of avoiding it in every circumstance.  We have a responsibility to use common sense.

  • Joe

    Thanks for the article on Zimmerman.  My son and I have been debating this off and on since it happened.  There is so much info we are missing regarding this and I believe allot of it is the media putting out what they want to put out and nothing else.  The other part of this is race.  Zimmerman being blamed for racially profiling Martin.  I know working as a reserve officer for a short period of time that we didn’t call it racially profiling.  We called it common sense which looks to me is in short demand.  It only becomes a race issue when it becomes advantageous to do so.  Drives me crazy.

  • There is a very broad line, easily seen by most rational folks, that when crossed, makes you the agressor! No matter that Zimmerman was getting his ass beat, he was the agressor. Assholes like Zimmerman, the self appointed holster sniffing cop wannabe, make the rest of us who carry every day look damned stupid. The Sanford police simply invited a Federal investigation. The only thing I want to know is, if racial harmony ever breaks out, who’s gonna pay Al Sharpton’s bills, and Jesse Jackson’s too? Let the legal system work this out, instead of inspiring otherwise peaceful folks to a frenzy.

    • If racial harmony ever breaks out; there will be not need for Rev AL Sharpton or Rev Jesse Jackson. If peace breaks out there will be not need for weapons. It appears that a lot of the posters are fighting against themselves. They are saying that Zimmerman is a wannabe cop, should have stayed in his car and was the agressor. Then they bring in thee REV. Al and Jackson along with media bias. This leads me to believe that deep down that we know that this shooting was not justifible.

    • FireFighterChen

      Do you not find it hypocritical to call him a “holster sniffing cop wanna be”, and then turn around and say “let the legal system work this out”?  Sounds like you have all ready made your judgement on the guy before you let the legal system do its job.

      If Zimmerman’s story holds true, and he was heading back to his vehicle when TM sucker punched him, how is it that Zimmerman is the aggressor then?

      BTW, it doesn’t take GZ to make us carriers look damn stupid, they just need to come here and read some of these hateful name calling replies.

  • JAC

    We don’t know the facts but we do know innocent til proved  guilty 
    . How about we give that a try. Did Zimmerman make a mistake if he didn’t follow the police order to not follow Travyon yes if he did as told and was attacked no. But the lynch mob is dead wrong. And why no out cry about black on black crime. Double standard Jesse and Al or Louis make no money off Black on Black crime and don’t shine a light on the Panthers the Black KKK not politically correct.

    • There is always an out cry on Black of Black crime. The issue is is that it shoud be an out cry on crime period. Do you say the same thing when there is white on white, brown on brown? The fact is peole kill people that are around them.

      • Donnie

        I think it was the same week that Trayvon was killed that there were 10 black kids killed and 39 wounded in Chicago.  No, I don’t see the outrage.  Guns are already illegal in Chicago so how could this happen?

        •  where was Obama for all that?
          Must not have been marketable enough for getting the black vote.
          He makes me sick using this tragedy to milk the black community for votes.
          The man has no conscience.

    • If the shooting is justified and IF Zimmerman didnt do anything to cause himself to be the initial aggressor…which in my state nullifies your right to use lethal force since YOU caused the problem to begin with…then he should go free without a problem.

      If, however, he WAS somehow the initial aggressor and CAUSED the confrontation then his use of lethal force should be a crime.

      We cant CAUSE a problem and then cry self defense when someone reciprocates.

      That said, even if he did cause it….in which case his self defense plea is bogus….that still does not give Trayvon the right to do what he did.

      We may find out that the details show BOTH of them as having committed a crime.

      • FireStar M40

         The problem is Zimmerman did several things (though NOT illegal), that lead to Travon’s death.

        First he carried a weapon, which under almost every Neighbor Watch rules and regulations is a No NO!  If he hadn’t, Trayvon wold be alive today.

        He followed Travon after being advised by 911 dispatch NOT to.

        He left his vehicle to follow Travon when he was told by 911 dispatch NOT to.

        He, etc., etc.

        At some point in time (because of the above actions), Zimmerman became the aggressor toward Travon.

        As far as I can see it, Zimmerman should be charged and arrested.  Let a jury sort it out.

        FireStar M40

    • Low_Speed

      Look you people need to give up this argument about black on black crime. You don’t know what you are talking about! The difference between this and black on black crime or even black on white crime is that the black person would have been in jail and convicted already meanwhile Zimmerman is free!!!

      • Captain Ron

        Saying it don’t make it so.  There were 500 murders in Chicago last year.  How many people went to jail for committing them?  Answer:  very few!
        Name one black person convicted of killing someone with a lawfully owned firearm in a self-defense situation.
        Yesterday, a black man was arrested after a good self defense shoot, but he was a two time felon and did not have a lega right to own al gun.  He was not arrested for the shooting.  It was a “good shoot”.
        BTW  Who you callin’ “You People”.  lol

        • Low_Speed

          Are you saying that the 500 murders were because of black on black crime? Some how I doubt that they were. Chicago is different world in itself. Blame the laws in Chicago that make it hard for people whether they are black, white or red to be able to purchase the tools they need to defend themselves. The murders in Chicago can’t be compared to this incident. Those murders are being investigated and more than likely arrest will be made. In this instance they know who shot Treyvon and they let him walk without an arrest. He should have at the very least been arrested and put before a grand jury and let them decide whether he should walk or be put on trial.

          As far as the convicted fellon is concerned, I’d like to know what he was convicted for. Please put a link in about his story of the shoot. Without any real information I cannot make a comment on this.

          • Captain Ron

            Calm down!  Google Sun Times.

        • Low_Speed

          Oh….”who you callin ‘ “You People”? Anybody who isn’t black but presume to know what black people should or shouldn’t be worried about.

      • Walkerdog

        You are correct sir.

      • bdshepherd

        I agree that a black man might have been more likely to have been arrested, but if he wasn’t would it be national news for weeks?  Would there be all the careless accusations and incitement?  The politicians, media, and vultures like Sharpton and Jackson don’t care about Martin, they care about their agenda. They’re more concerned about the color of the shooter than the tragic death of a young black man.

  • Drscottc

    Before everyone condemns Zimmerman they need to know that according to the report he DID listen to the dispatcher and had turned around and was walking back to his vehicle when Martin approached HIM.

    • And you know this how?

      • Misterzootsuit

        No one knows this for absolutely certain, except for him and God, but Zimmerman said in his statement to police that after the dispatcher instructed him not to follow, he was on his way back to his vehicle and Martin followed and confronted him.  And as of yesterday, there were news reports out stating that, according to the police, so far the evidence corroborated what he was saying. I’m not calling it one way or the other, but it is nowhere as simple as Martin’s family or all these protesters would have you believe.

        • Top Shotta

          I did not know that. Just goes to show that you shouldn’t judge unless you know all the facts.

          • PhilRearden

            I think you need to be giving your advise to Sharpton and Company.

        • Loharle321

          And Trayvon’s girlfriend was talking to him on his cell when Zimmerman hit him from behind (from her reported statement).

          • PhilRearden

            WoW!!! This is a new one.  Never heard that before. Whoever made the attack was the aggressor.  Martin is said to have walked up to the left of Jorge and proceded to punch him out.  If that is the case it has nothing to do with “stand your ground” but it is rather a case of refusing to be beat to death with whatever means is at your disposal. 
            I am really anxious to see the facts presented in court.

    •  The thing is if you listen to the 911 call from Zimmerman it does not sound like he IMMEDIATELY stopped and went back to his vehicle.
      It sounds like while he’s on the 911 call and been told to back off that he continues following the guy until he loses sight of him.

      If what it sounds like is the case, then he was in the wrong for not doing what 911 instructed IMMEDIATELY. Not just when he felt as though it was time to stop.

      When I have called 911 for stuff going on around my side of town I do what they say. I dont go looking for a problem or trying to track down bad guys.
      And while Im not part of a neighborhood watch, I do keep my eyes open and alert the police to anything I think they will want to know about….gunshots outside, for instance, which has happened a number of times.

      • FireFighterChen

        I agree that after he was told “you don’t need to do that.”  He did not IMMEDIATELY stop.  He says “ok”.  Then the dispatcher asks for his name.  He replies.  “George….he ran.”  At that point (maybe 5 seconds after he was told to stop pursuing), I believe he stopped because his voice changed from exertion back to what it sounded like when he was sitting in his vehicle.  That is my personal opinion.

        In the end though, 911 dispatchers are not LEO’s and they hold no authority. For example: As a civilian, if a 911 dispatcher told me to do CPR on someone I believed to have a blood borne pathogen, I will not get in trouble for disobeying the dispatcher.

      • F3368636

        We now know that the 911 tape was doctored by NBC so anything that we had heard on that tape might not be reality-

    • XD.357grandpa

      I read the same thing the day after the incident but can’t remember the source. Another writer also mentioned the 13 year old picture of Martin that we all see rather than his appearance at the time.

    • Like I have said. Here say.

  • fl cowboy

    Jason we went through a situation here in Bay county when Martin Lee Anderson died in a juvenile boot camp. The black community , Al Sharpton, Jessie Jackson, the black panthers protested and also marched for justice. The boot camp guards were put on trail, but all were found innocent of any wrong doing. Martin Lee died of sickle cell disease, which his family had known he had since birth. So we need to wait and let all the facts come out, and they will.

  • Captain Ron

    Mr. Hanson,
    How do we know that Mr. Zimmerman did not listen to the dispatcher.  I, for one, don’t even know how far away from his vihicle he was when the shotting occurred.  Was he close enough to have been trying to “walk away”?  For a CIA agent, you seem to jump to a lot of conclusions without having enough facts.  Or maybe you do!  How far away from his vehicle was he?

  • Captain Ron

    I have never been a part of a neighborhood watch group so I don’t know what they are instructed to do if they see something that is suspicious.  Can you enlighten me!  Seriously!!!
    I remember a grouip in New York that became fairly famous several years ago.  I can’t remember their name now, but they all wore red shirts.  It seems that they were call “something Angels”.  Of course they went out as a group and were never armed as I recall.

    • James

      Guardian Angels I think

    • As James stated they were called the Gardian Angles. They did not carry weapons. You are right. They did wear RED to ID themselves and worked in groups.

    • Mactex53

      I believe it was Red Berets.

  • Tucsonjw

    Jason:
    Check this out:  On CNN Tuesday (Piers Morgan), a black reporter/friend of Zimmerman clarified and disputed some prior “facts.” Zimmerman isNOT a big guy–he’s a LITTLE guy–about 5′ 9″ and 140 or so pounds, which if true make him close to the victim’s height and weight.  And if so, this makes Z’s self-defense claim seem more credible. 

  • James

    When seconds count the police are just minutes away. Don’t judge til all facts are known. I do wonder if the watch group Zimmerman is in has a way they are able to show who they are like a day glow vest with who they are on it? Too many if and or buts in this case. All need to back off til the facts are known.

  • Ben Franklin

    I don’t kow if Zimmerman was “Hotdogging” it or not, but if he was not the one to use phisical force first then we should be careful of calling this a “bad shoot”.  He may have “disrespected” Trayvon but in no world that I live in do I want to be beaten because someone feels as though he has been disrespected by me.
    Point number two is that if this is a “Good Shoot” then we need to remember that if we do not hang together then we will certainly hang separately.

    (Yeah, sure.  I just made that up.  lol )

    • Frogmandiver

       People who have never lived in a gang infested or crime infested neighbor hood set back and have all the answers! That is what thugs and gang bangers do they attack, rob, and kill anyone they perceive as DISRESPECTING them.

  • Hubbs

    Good points made by several – hysteria is running wild and has no place in this situation.

  • Turbolion

    In my concealed carry class, it was impressed upon us repeatedly that it was incumbent upon those bearing weapons to avoid confrontation if at all possible, even if it means swallowing some pride and taking the high road in many situations.  It can (and likely will be) argued that Zimmerman created the environment that led to hostile contact between the parties and his admission on the 911 tapes will support this.  We now know that the initial homicide detective wanted to file manslaughter charges the night of the incident, but was overruled (he went so far as to complete an affidavit of his suspicions).  The worst part of this (aside from a young man being dead) is that now the CCW community and our recent gains in the area of responsible ownership laws and regulations are now in jeopardy due the the intense scrutiny bearing down on this situation.  All because one overzealous person didn’t have the patience to wait for the police when no lives were in imminent danger.

    • I liked everything you said. All but the part about “We now know that the initial homicide detective wanted to file manslaughter charges the night of the incident, but was overruled (he went so far as to complete an affidavit of his suspicions).” There are so many people that are not current with the latest of this story. They continue to spread lies and mistruth. 

    • Frogmandiver

       Zimmerman created the environment like Al Gore created the internet! A punk thug being dead is a relief to society!

  • Petemoorejr

    I agree with you.  I have felt all along that Zimmerman should have backed down once contact was made with the police and, in so many words, was advised not to follow any further.  In other words, as a neighborhood watch person, he had done his responsibility at that point and should never have proceeded further. 

  • You are right Mr. Hanson. Walking away is sometimes the best and only option. Walking away allows you to live and fight another day and keep your CPL/CCW. Domestic violence is one of the reasons you can have your CPL/CCW rights taken away. Mr. Zimmerman had a issue with domestic violence with his girl friend. How is it the Mr. Zimmermans was allowed to have a CPL/CCW license? Just another one of those many questions that needs to be answered. Trayvon Martin would be alive if he did not have his gun.

  • Mitchdamour

    Thank you for this post. I am always very happy with what I read from you. It tkes a real MAN to do what you speak of. A man that uses the brain God blessed him with. Thank you for teaching the concept of thinking.
    Mitch D’Amour

  • Squire Bond

    Absolutely Jason.  If Zimmerman had not followed Martin, then none of this would have happened.  We can’t ask Martin, but is it reasonable that he feared for his life especially when he saw Zimmerman had one?  Isn’t it reasonable when someone follows you to defend yourself if they keep following you no matter what you do?   Zimmerman caused this.  He had a gun, what did he have to prove, that he knew how to stick it in someone’s chest and pull the trigger?  This situation could have been avoided and should have been, by Zimmerman because he started it.   Granted, not all the facts are out – but why was Zimmerman out of his car?  Zimmerman should be criminally liable for this because he was carrying a gun.  

  • You can play what if all day long. What we do know is that Trayvon is dead. Approached by a person in an unmarked car, not in uniform, no badge or ID and no right to ask any questions from a person walking down the street. If a person is talking on the telephone to his girl friend telling them that someone is following him; how likely is it for that person to turn around and chase or pursue the person following them? Not likely.

    • Captain Ron

      Do we know that Zimmerman initiated a conversation with Marthin?

  • What deliberate disinformation would that be. Just asking.

  • Computerman, you stated you “heard”. In court, they call that hearsay. He was not suspended for school for having marijuanna so why would he be arrested. He jumped from nowhere. Man please.

  • Lurker100

    Lets suppose z had let the boy walk away. What if that action lead to another innocent being harmed. One who couldn’t defend themselves. It happens and the let’s not get involved attitude is doing great harm to a once great country.

  • Bttbbob

    The reason Zimmerman was not and should not be charged is right here. Was he not the sharpest tool in the shed. I would say no he wasn’t. But that does not take away his right to self defense. And here is the law to back it.

    776.041 Use of force by aggressor. —The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:
    (1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or

    (2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:

    ****(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or

    (b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.

  • Acram

    We do not have all the facts but this appears to have been potentially avoidable and it is certainly making the passage of a stand your ground law in Iowa  much more difficult in the legislature since anit gun forces are convinced this will happen at least daily if such a law is passed here.

  • Pete C.

    When we decide to carry a firearm, we are accepting the responsibility that goes with that.  The same is true when driving a 3000 lb weapon on the highways.  Both are lethal and both require responsibility.  We do not know the extent of how responsible Zimmerman acted and we will not know until the trial comes out.

    What I do know is that when an organization puts out a $10,000 bounty on a man’s life (as the New Black Panther’s have done) and the media doesn’t give that the same publicity, something is seriously wrong in our country. 

    Also, during St. Patrick’s Day weekend, there were 49 shootings in Chicago.  35 of these shootings were against unarmed victims, one of which was a 6 year old sitting on her front steps.  Why isn’t the media outraged with those statistics?  That sickens me!!

  • starwalker_wa

    I did a lengthy, articulate analysis of my take on this case, and it was eaten.  ZImmerman needs to be investigated for doing a number of things he hnew were wrong, and the police should be investigated for treating him like a Good Ol’ Boy.  I was a deputy sheriff, and wish to know why no investigaton was conducted that night.  Why wasn’t he tested for drugs and alcohol?  why wasn’t he taken to the station and interrogated?  It seems he told the police on scene that he was attacked and they closed the case right thtere and let him go.  All possible evidence is now no longer in existence.  The one question that bothers me the most, was zimmerman carrying openly or concealed.  If he was carrying concealed, how would Martin know there was a gun to go for?  That has not been answered at all.

  • Eric

    My biggest thing about this story is 1) Why did Zimmerman not comply with the police dispatcher? 2) If Zimmerman had pulled a gun on me with out a reason for it, I would also do whatever it takes to protect myself and get the gun away from him. 3) Zimmerman’s story Keeps changing to fill in questions which is usually a good sign he is lying about what happened.

    • Mactex53

      Really? Your response to  someone pulling a gun on you is to take it away from them? Yeah, that’ll really teach ’em….

    • fatmuscle2

       Actually Eric, Mr. Zimmerman’s story has never changed, nor have the police reports.  It might be better if you actually read the reports before you comment on them.

    • Jess James

       you are assuming Zimmerman pulled a gun.  That is a 3 year sentence in Florida even with a ccw.  You can’t use it for a leverage in an argument.

  • Markluster

    i believe in what you say but this story actually is 2 stories it is one of a man that has been advised and i say ADVISED to say in his can , Now I’m like you if there is anyway in this world i can let the police earn there paycheck i will because just because i carry a weapon which i do does not turn me into Superman nor do i think that because i carry a gun i think I’m the answer to stop crime .I carry to stop a death in one way or another that’s it and when I strap it on daily i always look at it as a prison sentence because if used for any reason that’s not lawful that’s where it will put me. But as a advisement he did not break the law to leave his car but he did use very bad judgement and yes like you say he would think differently know i bet, but to now the 2’nd  story he was engaged with a 6.3 person and at that time he did not know his age all he knew was this person was knocking him to the ground breaking his nose brushing up and trying for his gun while yelling for help .With none coming he used the last choice which is to use his weapon now afterwords you find out he was only 17 years old well let me ask how many 17 or 16 or 15 year old kids are now serving time for MURDER with yes parents saying how good there sons were WELL YES there always nice at home but ask all the people serving time now what they did once they left the house and got on the crazy streets filled with pressures from other kids and gangs.And by the way the hoody syndrome well heres a eye opener it was not up on his head till after he was being watched and followed so everyone drop the hood and just zip them up  because this was not the reason  ..Now which none of this gives anyone the right to look at  changing a gun law which works for a person who used bad judgement on a ADVISEMENT to stay in a car .We as a country has taken this to far i mean to far because it has now been turned into a racial thing as far as the WHITE HOUSE has came out to say and that’s wrong it was just bad judgement for leaving his car story (1)and then saving his life story story (2)at most he could get obstruction or some where in that area if found guilty for bad judgement but not guilty for saying his life.I think this is being blown way out of shape to give anti gun hating people in the house to try and further there efforts to try and take are rights away .WHEN WILL PEOPLE STOP !.and if anyone did anything that was unlawful it was a organization that would be aloud to go on nation T.V. and put a bounty on a head of a not guilty american .I believe if we must believe in our governments then they must not first be challenged always by are highest officials .Don’t mind me if you read all of this I’m just a old man who served his country put my life on the line for ALL and never said i will only kill if your white we have to stop paying in the media and in life for what happen in the past and worry what it will take to make this a safer place and that will be first by remembering are amendments and stop trying and take them away or change them .And to remember a man Black Or White is always innocent until proven guilty in a court of law by his pears and no one should interfere in that.I want to keep believing there is a reason we want to be in this country not a reason we should not ….I’m done
     

  • I know what you mean about the ‘macho’ thing.

    I golf a bit and the ‘macho’ men always get a chuckle out of my using ‘ladies’ clubs (theyre not) and teeing off from the front tees.
    Its pretty funny, however, when theyre in the trees looking for the 4 balls they just teed off into the woods and Im down the center of the fairway half way to the green on a long par four.

    I dont give a rats rear if I have to use ladies clubs in a pink bag wearing a flowery skirt and a maxipad with some bright red lipstick and a bit of eye liner….if it helps ME score better the what do I care if some hacks in the back think its funny.
    I can handle my own, but I dont like the tough guy routine.

    Zimmerman SHOULD have done what he was told to do.
    Even if this incident results in the actual shooting being justified, my personal view is that he should lose his concealed carry license and maybe even his guns.

    The reason being is that while it is a freedom and a right, guns are a huge responsibility.
    Im not entirely certain that this guy IS responsible since after being TOLD to stand down and knowing he had a gun, he still continued to pursue the teen.

    Since I got my CHL Ive found myself avoiding situations that Id never have even paid attention to before….such as driving down certain streets where there might be some punk trying to get into someones car. My doors are always locked, so they cant get in, but with a gun I know I may be forced into a situation where Id have to shoot someone. So just to avoid it altogether I take different paths to get where Im going.

    Its about responsibility, not being tough.
    If Zimmerman cant figure that out then maybe gun ownership isnt for him. At least carrying one.

    • Captain Ron

      I relate to your attitude about avoiding the possibility of trouble when I am carrying.  It may not be true for everyone, but I know that I am much more polite and easy to get along with when I have a firearm on me.

    • So you don’t have to do what you’re told, but others do… I see you making a rush to judgement here that is far worse than having some guys laugh at your golf clubs (funny how that enrages you). If everything happened like it ‘should’ happen people wouldn’t have to carry proection at all. Don’t be in such a hurry to judge one side of the story.

  • Rob

    Well Said

  • Mrleo27

    Well said Jason, well said……….

  • This notion that people who stand up for themselves are somehow insecure is rather funny. I know that people are getting tired of hiding behind their barred windows hoping the police show up in time. Honest law abiding citizens avoiding parks because of the criminal element. America didn’t always have a ‘third party’ mentality (where you run and tell instead of standing up for yourself). There is a reason CCW is going through the roof.. people are tired of having to surrender the streets to thugs and drug dealers. If this Zimmerman story continues to trend as it has been there is going to be egg on a lot of faces out there. People keep talking about what Zimmerman should have done differently, how about what Treyvon should have done differently? I’m as black as Obama is and I don’t get into situations like that. Nobody likes to see a young person die (or anyone for that matter), but I like the idea of my Grandmother afraid to answer a knock at her front door even less.

    • tonyAWC

      “Steve Pimm” … Well said!

      I’m sick of the courtesy extended to criminals in this country due to the liberal influence on our society.   The reason I carry is because I will not run!’  And as a law abiding citizen I shouldn’t have to!  That’s not “macho” or “insecurity”, that’s just the way it is! Let’s stop worrying about the criminal’s color and feelings, and put the trash out of our misery!

      • Walkerdogg2002

        That is right Steve, I don’t carry a gun to kill people, I carry a gun to keep from being killed.

    • Low_Speed

      What do you think Treyvon should have done differently? Right now are we have is a dead 17 year old that can’t speak for himself, 911 audio from people including zimmerman himself  implicating himself in stalking Treyvon and using “F’ing Coon” during the call.  Zimmerman’s side of it as told by a friend and Father that is allegedly a former judge. The lead investigator saying that he wanted to press charges against Zimmerman but was over ruled. And video tape that may show that Zimmerman wasn’t as hurt as reported.

      What was Treyvon suppose to do differently?

    • Puttippos-835

      LOL, yea, imagine you are on an after dinner walk in the park and some dude trailing you in his car jumps out and draws a firearm on you. How long are you gonna wait for him to explain himself before you blast him with your CCW? 

      —Side-pedal off the X, side-pedal, draw, Bam Bam Bam. 

  • Frogmandiver

    When you are the neighborhood watch then your job is not to run when you are reporting suspicious activity.  I would expect the same behavior from someone who is willing to take ownership of a horrible neighborhood as I would of a security officer or a police officer!  When we adopt a retreat mentality we will never win against punks and thugs because they seem to know the law well enough to stand their ground! There seems to be the blurring of lines here between looking for trouble and reporting it in progress and standing your ground once you found it. Proverbs 28:1 The wicked flee when no man pursues; but the righteous are as bold as a lion. 

    • Low_Speed

      You are right that your job is not to run when you are reporting suspicious activity. Your job is to report the activity to authorities and to provide as much information as possible to them when they arrive. “I would expect the same behavior from someone who is willing to take ownership of a horrible neighborhood as I would of a security officer or a police officer!”You should not expect that from neighborhood watch. That is not their job. Neighborhood WATCH!!!If you know that law enforcement is coming, unless they are attacking you or your loved ones you need to let the police sort this out. Maybe except if someone is being attacked and you have the ability to stop it before the police get there. Your obligation of Neighborhood Watch stops there and being a good citizen and person starts.

      • Frogmandiver

        “If you know that law enforcement is coming, unless they are attacking
        you or your loved ones you need to let the police sort this out. ”  Yes, he was being punched in the head several times when trying to get back into his SUV according to the police report.  There is no point to a neighborhood watch if you strip them of their right to defend themselves against an attack!  I lived in a neighborhood like that so I know first hand what happens and how thugs and gang bangers act when they see a “neighborhood narc” they go on the offensive just like this punk did.

        • Low_Speed

          That police report was based on information given by Zimmerman who by the investigating officer accounts didn’t believe him. I work with cops that believe he was wrong and should’ve been arrested.
          You call Treyvon a punk but Zimmerman was the punk. If it did happen the way you say it did, Zimmerman stalks this boy. Treyvon is in fear of his life because this guy that looks like a pedifile so he used the stand your ground law and fights. Zimmerman not willing to fight like a man in an engagement he caused and decides to shoot the boy when he’s on the loosing end.

          If he had done what he was suppose to do…..and of this could have been prevented.

          • HogRider58

            “Looks Like a Pedifile”….
            What exactly DOES a Pedifile look like?  A High School teacher?  A Minister in a Church? A Mailman?  The Milk Man?  The Garbage Collecter?
            Please “Low Speed” tell us what a Pedifile looks like.

      • Frogmandiver

        Why don’t you wait for the police and see how many there are left to be your witness in a gang infested neighborhood. I would say Zimmerman took ownership of failures of the police! 

        • Low_Speed

          What failures? Was this neiborhood supposed to be gang infested? I haven’t read or seen anything that said that this neiborhood was gang infested. He was over zealous.

          • Frogman

            That is because the media is making a big story out of nothing!  The media is now standing accused of doctoring a story to make it news  worthy!  Why else is the media using, old, had selected photos of both TVM and Mr. Zimmerman? One that makes people think a little boy was brutally killed by a fat white guy.  TVM was 6′ 2″ and 17 not 12 like the picture the media ran with and Zimmerman is as much Hispanic as he is white, but the still continue to use white as his profile. TVM was a punk-thug-gangster and we are all better off without more like him!

          • Mactex53

            There is no need to speak disrespectfully of the dead. Unless you personally knew Martin, you are not in a position to comment on what he was or wasn’t lest you be guilty of the same thing you accuse the media of doing. That type of comment does nothing to determine the true nature of the confrontation.

          • Frogmandiver

            Give me a break! Thug trash is thug trash! That’s funny when you don’t live in a community surrounded by section 8 housing and soup kitchens you only hear about it on the news.  I will comment and that there would be no need for a neighbor hood watch if it wasn’t a shit hole neighbor hood! 

        • HogRider58

          Sorry, but the neighborhood this happened in is reportedly a Gated Community, not a “Thug infested neighborhood” as you might think.

  • Hogwild86

    Jason as you stated the facts remain unknown. With that being said you are assuming that he indeed chased Trevon down resulting in a confrontation. The only facts we truly know concerning that very important piece of information is that after the operator instructed him not to, Zimmerman simply said OK. The sad thing with all of this is a teen is dead and another man has lost his life due to death by media.

  • Markluster

    I liked your article and as you were saying the car is the place to be if you feel the need to call for help thats what we pay for ., BUT WHAT HE SEEN was a 6.3 male which was bigger then him that looked suspicious and was willing to follow not to fight for his life come on people the picture is 5 years old it’s a farce and just because he was 17 after he was shot makes a difference when it’s a fight for your life, how many 17 and even younger are serving life on death row for murder who’s family has said the son could have never did something like that but it happens everyday and just because the color of his skin was black people want to turn this into a race thing when Zimmerman race is not even white to begin with.I just don’t get it are people so lost within hate that everytime there it’s a black person involved in a crime we will always hear this no wonder aa country we a slowly looking at becoming 2nd and 3rd on the totem pole because we always have to fight useless conflicts like this instead of growing stronger as a nation.If your so stern on fighting someone join the service and serve the country instead of tearing it apart

  • JimMacklin

     posted on NPR blog
     
    Nobody seems able to actually find the law that actually matters, it isn’t
    Castle Doctrine or Stand Your Ground, it is simple. Not many years ago any poor
    man and any black man or woman who was forced to defend their life would be
    arrested ON THE SPOT and it did not matter whether they were innocent or a cold
    blooded killer, they were “all liars” in the eyes of racist police
    departments.
    Florida law protects the minority, the Black or Mexican, the
    working poor or middle class.
    If Bill Gates, founder of Microsoft had been in
    Florida and shot Trayvon in exactly the same way and he was arrested to satisfy
    the rising mob, what would happen?
    Mr. Gates could be arraigned and bail set
    at $100 million and he could just write a check for that amount, which he would
    get back in full in a few weeks when the Grand Jury ruled one way or the other.
    If it went to trial, the check would just remain in the court and if he was
    found guilty, he would still get his $100 million back from the court.
    But a
    poor man, black, white, red or yellow is protected from having to pay a
    non-refundable $5,000 to post a $50,000 bail using a bondsman. Of course the
    bondsman gives no money to the court, only a promise that he will see to it he
    shows up for each hearing. To pay your mortgage you have to work, so if you stay
    in jail your house will be foreclosed. etc. etc.
    So here is what the law
    says.
    The 2011 Florida Statutes

    Title XLVI
    CRIMES Chapter
    776 JUSTIFIABLE USE OF FORCE View Entire Chapter

     776.032 Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for
    justifiable use of force.— (1)A person who uses force as permitted
    in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is justified in using such force and is
    immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force,
    unless the person against whom force was used is a law enforcement officer, as
    defined in s. 943.10(14), who was acting in the performance of his or her
    official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with
    any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have
    known that the person was a law enforcement officer. As used in this subsection,
    the term “criminal prosecution” includes arresting, detaining in custody, and
    charging or prosecuting the defendant.
     (2)A law enforcement agency may use
    standard procedures for investigating the use of force as described in
    subsection (1), but the agency may not arrest the person for using force unless
    it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used was
    unlawful.
     (3)The court shall award reasonable attorney’s fees, court costs,
    compensation for loss of income, and all expenses incurred by the defendant in
    defense of any civil action brought by a plaintiff if the court finds that the
    defendant is immune from prosecution as provided in subsection
    (1).
    History.—s. 4, ch. 2005-27.
    Posted by Jim Macklin | March
    29, 2012 1:00 AM

  • Rogn Poisker

    This is /was one of the few rational responses that Ive heard to this situation. Most of what Ive seen only serves to further inflame a bad situation. The worst possible outcome that could result from all the incendiary verbiage and breastbeating is that Mr Z could actually be guilty and the machinations of the inflammatory fringe could result in an aquital, then we would have a racially tinged disaster / conflict on our hands. May rational heads prevail.

  • O C Stevens

    O. C. Stevens

    many good comments….sad that Trayvon or anyone was killed and that so many
    will suffer the rest of their lives because of this killing that seemingly could have so easily been avoided.

    as said, too many “facts” missing….and maybe Martin was attacked by Trayvon… did people notice
    the 911 call contained a very negative statement something like “”them &$^#^% always getting away with stuff “” ….can’t recall the exact wording but it was a slur about “them”…so Martin, I conclude had a very negative attitude about Trayvon(a them) to start with….so if he did follow Trayvon even for a few second or a minute then returned to this car as has been said….I wonder what Martin might …repeat might have said to or about Trayvon that could have caused the youth to become enraged and attack Martin….if in fact that is proven to be true.  Seems to me Martin could easily have fanned the flames in just a few seconds into a 3-alarm situation by either word or action or both….  Ego is a major cause of many a deadly encounter that otherwise cooler heads would walk away from. 

    With Trayvon dead we’ll most likely never know the near truth of what happened…both Trayvon and Martin would have told a very different story as they would see “it” from very different points of view….their life’s experiences most likely quite different….so their “truths” would also be different.

    Do hope some good can come out of this tragedy for the future….    

    • Captain Ron

      I understand what you meant to say but I think that you have “Martin” confused with “Zimmerman”.  The dead guy was named Trayvon Martin.
      With that said, there is an old saying something about sticks and stones.  There in no excuse for beating the crap out of somebody because he insulted you.   If your logic holds true, then you would be willing to agree that Zimmerman would have been justified in shooting Martin if he had said something to to enrage Zimmerman.  Maybe Martin called Zimmerman a beaner, wetback, or whitey, or any number of other things.  I don’t think that happened but if it did, I don’t think that heated words calls for anymore of a response than more heated words.  NEVER PHYSICAL VIOLENCE!!!!!!!

  • Captain Ron

    I have heard it said many times that one of the reasons that we need CCW is that the bad guys would not know who was armed and therefore be less likely to jump someone.  In other words, “An armed society is a polite society”.  Well,  I don’t know what happened in this case but it is food for thought.

  • Captain Ron

    No one knows what the facts will show when presented as the legal system is designed to do.  After that we will all have a better basis for making determinations.  The real problem here are the race whores that are fermenting hate without waiting for the facts very much like what happened in the Twanana Brawley and the Duke LaCrosse Team Rape situations.
    If racial peace is what they want (and I don’t think they do) then I am sure that they will be flying to North Carolina where a white man was beaten by six black guys while they yelled racial epitaphs (sp).
    I noticed their absence in Kansas City when two black kids chased down a white kid and dosed him with gasoline before setting him on fire.  That was deemed to be Not a hate crime even though it was reported that they used racial terms during the ordeal.
    I am not complaining because violent retaliation was not threatened after the above tragedies, but I am complaining that the people who seem to find wrong on only one side of the color line are themselves RACISTS.

  • tonyAWC

    I hear a lot of people mimicking what the liberal media has reported about the Martin – Zimmerman case.  That’s why it is so blown out of proportion now.  From Jason to many of you commenting, you operate on the assumption that Zimmerman ignored the 911 operator and continued to pursue Martin.  Zimmerman said that once the 911 operator told him not to follow as we heard he said ok and turned around and headed back to his vehicle.  He said that is where Martin came up on him and asked him if he had a problem.  Zimmerman replied no and said Martin told him “you do now” and punched him in the face breaking his nose and continuing to assault him pushing him to the ground and smashing his head on the cement!  In that same situation(if that is the case) I would have shot him too!    Do you realize that the liberal media was exposed for chopping up the 911 calls and putting them back together on air to sound different?  When the mainstream media is the liberal deceptive outlet that it is, you best be careful what you take as fact.  If Martin did attack first, I believe shooting him is justified!  If you are going to attack someone they have the right in my book to use whatever defense they have.  That may not be the law, but it should be.  If we are going to stop crime then we are going to have to get tough on in it!  Touch me, my wife, my kids and you may pay a bigger price than you expected!  I

  • pastorT

    My question is, where is the Hispanic community’s support for Mr. Zimmerman.  They were out in force in AZ to protest border security and what they construed as racism from “white” people who want the illegals stopped caught and removed.  Now one of their own is under fire with no clear evidence against him yet they are silent and invisible!  The black community is out in force and out in rage, and out of control for Martin.  Yet black on black shootings are happening every day in this country with innocent black victims and yet no protest, no anger, no sharpton?   Is it me or does it just seem that in order to get these misguided activist active there must be a white person (or as the liberal media dubbed Mr. Zimmerman a “Hispanic-White”) in the mix?  Seems like the anger and antics that come from these activist groups are always aimed at the “white” man no matter what side either is on.  Case and point, look up the recent case of “John White” on the internet.  He is a black man that shot and killed an unarmed 17yr. old white teen because he said he felt threatened.  al “nut job” sharpton, the naacp, the muslims, and other black groups(the same ones out in support of Mr. Martin and against the racist whites) were all there screaming that Mr. white had the right in America to defend himself.  So let it be well understood, most of these people don’t care about justice, just vigilante-ism.  

    If a church group or the tea party put a bounty on a black person or threatened his life like the gutless black panthers and muslims did, they would all have been rounded up and put in jail and the black community that is yelling racism now would be out in force with the same cry over that!  But the liberal media and liberal politicians treat it like it is called for rather than the serious crime it is!

    What a messed up country we have folks! 

  • Neuhtzie5

    It’s sad to see some of these comments. Let’s take RACE out of it first of all. If both Martin and Zimmerman were of the same race it’s still wrong. Why? You are NOT the police. You are neighborhood watch! You have know right to pursue,detain or take any action against a stranger except to make the call to 911. 
    I respect Jason to the utmost and enjoy his written commentary. BUT….He is being a little contradictory here. He states “First off,it seems there are still a lot of facts we don’t know”. Then he proceeds to condemn Martin! How about we wait till we get ALL the facts and then we can make comments as to what did or did not happen. Right now we cannot speculate and that’s obvious due to the ongoing investigation which if anybody has any law enforcement background, is not very PROactive. 
    I agree that we do have to hold back on retaliation on road rage and so many other instances. I wanted to hold back on commenting but felt compelled to add my two cents which I never do until now. And concealed carrying for most sensible people makes you less reactive. In calms you and makes you more subdued because you have that resource. Not hyper and waiting to use it. You never WANT to use it! Although someday you may have too. But not like some vigilante. Concealed carry is a privilege and a protection. Not the right to be a loose cannon etc. Such as being a neighborhood watch guy thinking he is in the wild wild west.
    So let’s not be fast to judge and talk about a person size etc. Let’s let facts roll out and hopefully the judicial system we do the right thing regardless of which way it swings.

    • pastorT

      ” I respect Jason to the utmost and enjoy his written commentary.
      BUT….He is being a little contradictory here. He states “First off,it
      seems there are still a lot of facts we don’t know”. Then he proceeds to
      condemn Martin! How about we wait till we get ALL the facts and then we
      can make comments as to what did or did not happen.”
      “You are NOT the police. You are neighborhood watch! You have know
      right to pursue,detain or take any action against a stranger except to
      make the call to 911. ”
      “Concealed carry is a privilege and a protection. Not the right to be a
      loose cannon etc. Such as being a neighborhood watch guy thinking he is
      in the wild wild west.”

      You contradict yourself!   Just like many others you are making “judgment calls.”  saying Zimmerman “pursued” “detained” and took “action” against Martin.  You say he behaved like he was a “loose cannon” in the “wild, wild west.”  

      See how easy it is to leap to a conclusion and to pass judgment?

      Zimmerman had the right to follow someone he didn’t recognize and found suspicious.  He was acting as a responsible citizen and a neighborhood watch member.  He wasn’t out there as a cowboy from the wild, wild west.  He was part of a group of citizens that were proactive in stopping ongoing crime in their neighborhood!
      Who knows, maybe he did stop a crime from taking place, or maybe just doing his job things went wrong!  When the evidence is in, it may be the shooting was uncalled for, maybe not.  However, his action in following a suspicious individual was spot on right!If we don’t like the “suspicion” part or the “following” part, then we best move to a place where crime doesn’t exist or close our doors and hide from it until we have to deal with it on our own doorstep and to heck with our neighbors!…but …knock, knock, chances are good it will come to your door sooner or later!

  • Captain Ron

    We don’t know what Treyvon should have done differently yet.  Maybe we never will but the thing that Z said under his breath was unintelligible.  Maybe with technology we will be able to find out what he said but some are saying that the word was “punk”.  It seems that when the  mind is made up then any facts will only serve to confuse.  That is sad.
    Even if Z said something really bad, that is no reason to beat the crap out of him if that is what happened. But we don’t know what happened yet.  Let’s all calm down and wait for the investigaton to go forward and then try to figure things out.
     

  • Captain Ron

    Jason, has this article set any records in terms of the number of comments or anything.

    This whole incident reminds me of so many cowboy movies that I have seen.  The sheriff has someone in jail but some loud mouth is over at the saloon inciting a “necktie party”.  Then after some time the lynch mob makes a run on the jail and the sheriff steps outside the door with a shotgun.
    I wonder how this one will play out.  Will the jail be over run or will cooler heads prevail so that the law can take its course as the sheriff sneaks the prisoner out to Hayes City or some such so that he can get a fair trial?

  • BLACKHORSE

    There are always what ifs. Consider this. Had Zimmerman
    been unarmed as most neighbor watch participants are mandated, he could have
    been killed. Deadly force can come to a victim with the bare hands. The testosterone
    of an angry 17 year old can be deadly.  Would the news be making a racial issue over
    Zimmerman’s death? I believe the same outcome could have resulted had they both
    been of the same race. While tragic, perhaps the 17 year old did attack first.
    If this is proven, will there be the same elevation of outcry in the media of black
    on white crime? Actually half white half Hispanic. Let’s all just be Americans
    and put the race issue aside.

    A personal incident with me resulted in saving the life
    of the responding officer. The alleged bad guy was snooping around a
    construction site at sunset. I called the police from a safe distance and
    remained in position.  When the single
    officer from this small town arrived after dark, the alleged bad guy hid behind
    a stack of brick waiting to ambush the officer. I called 911 again to alert the
    dispatcher. The officer put his light on the brick and told the guy to show
    himself.

    I am in charge of a rural neighborhood watch now and
    don’t leave home without it. I’m no John Wayne but not stupid either. I don’t
    tell my volunteers to carry. I just give them a few scenarios of what could
    take place if they live in the fantasy land liberals want you to believe in. They
    have a choice to quit.

    1. You are driving into a dead end road and stumble upon
    someone burying a body for which if caught could bring them life in prison or
    the death penalty. Do you think they will let the witness that can convict them
    live?  

    2.  You discover a
    burglary at a home and the get-a-way driver sees you drive by. He will be a
    three-time loser if convicted of this crime. Will he let you live?

    You must always assume the worst can happen.  I don’t live in fear that my house will burn
    down, but I do have several fire extinguishers. I am prepared. In a rural
    community you have to deal will the issue yourself until help arrives, which
    could take a long time. The average response time for the police is how long?
    If Zimmerman was wrong, he will have to face the court.

    • Frogskyn

      Neither of your situations fits what happened to Trayvon

  • CIGARTOM

    I AGREE WITH HANSON. I AM A VETINAM VETERAN, WITH SEVERAL YEARS AS A INFANTRY SOLDER AND SPECIAL FORCES. WHEN YOU CAN AVOID A SITUATION YOU SHOULD. A COOL HEAD SHOULD ALWAYS PREVAIL. IF YOU WANT TO BE A HERO WITH YOUR PEERS, THEN TRY HELPING SAVE A LIFE. TRAINED LAW ENFORCEMENT SOMETIMES MAKES MISTAKES. LET THEM DO THEIR JOBS. THERE ARE TOO MANY WANNA BE’S (LAW ENFORCEMENT AND MILITARY). IF IT IS NOT YOUR CHOSEN LAWFUL PROFESSION, PUT YOUR CONFIDENCE IN THE PROS AND WE WILL HAVE A BETTER SOCIETY. IT BAD ENOUGH WHEN LAW ENFORCEMENT BUNDLE A SITUATION, BUT A CITIZEN SHOULD BE VERY CAREFUL, AGAIN AVOID THE SITUATION IF YOU CAN, LET THE PROPER AUTHORITIES HANDLE IT.

  • CTH9814696

    LETS STOP WORRING ABOUT THE RACE OF PEOPLE, STATISTICS WILL SHOW WHAT RACE IS INVOLVED IN THE CRIMES. WE NEED TO HELP STOP CRIMES AS MUCH AS WE CAN. MY WIFE WORKED ACROSS THE STREET AST THE OTHER FEDERAL BUILDING IN OKLA CITY. WHO COMMITTED THAT CRIME? I CAN GO ON AND ON, SO RACE WHOULD ONLY BE USED AS STATISTICS TO HELP IMPROVE OUR SOCIETY, EXAMING THE CAUSES BEHIND THE CRIMES. IF YOU BRING UP A LITTLE CHILD(ENGLISH SPEAKING) UP IN A RUSSIAN SURROUNDING, THE CHILD WILL LEARN TO SPEAK RUSSIAN FROM IT’S SURROUNDINGS, GET THE MESSAGE? 

  • xhawkx

    I have read most of these comment and have come to the conclusion that most every opinion is correct, and those comments I disagree with I respect those opinions. All I can add is the FREAKIN’ media has done it again. When Americans understand that the media runs the world please just think about that for a moment. That’s how they make their money, again look at Nancy Disgrace, making money off of tragedy, convicting Zimmerman before she knows any of the facts and this BS transfers to the population. This was NOT a race issue until the media posted a pic of a 14 yo Martin wearing a hooded sweatshirt and then the media, said hmmmm, lets tell the world he (Zim) is White and play the freakin’ race card. Now add that RACIST cartoon character REV. Sharpton ,The instigator of racial divide. I would just like to add that 2 days prior or so, 2 young Black kids poured lighter fluid on a younger white kid, lit him on fire, then the black kid yelled, burn WHITE BOY. Where are the white folks protesting that racial incident, this entire media circus makes me sick and the reaction of the Black American community must learn that the past is history and until they learn that nothing can undo a historic injustice, maybe THEY will finally believe that all White Folk are not racists. Leave justice in hands the of those who know the law and not into a media driven mob of ignorance. Justice, American style is what it is and IT, is the only judge of Justice.

    I give my sincere thoughts of condolence to the entire Martin family for this stupid unnecessary incident.

  • Christepherb

    I wholeheartedly concur you with. As gun owner/weapon carriers we MUST be mindful of our actions at ALL times!

  • Frogskyn

    If zimmerman was threatened, then we need to ask why was trayvon feeling he had to defend HIMSELF? Zimmerman should have not put trayvon in that position and should, at the very LEAST be held for manslaughter.
    My point is that you can not intimidate an innocent person (in this case a child) and then shoot them when they feel threatened so they are defending themselves.
    Lets look at it this way.
    I carry a gun. I see some guy talking on the cellphone while driving. this pisses me off so I start pursuing that person. I chase them across town. They are freaking out because they dont know who I am or why I am chasing them. I corner them in a parking lot where I get out of my car. They feel they are threatened so they grab a baseball bat an get out of the car and confront me. I shoot them because they are armed with a bat and I am afraid for my life.
    Tell me, honestly.. Am I right to shoot them?

    • Frogmandiver

      Were you there? Did TVM act in self defense or was he feeling disrespected like most black punks do when the “hall monitor” comes showing up?

    • Another_Fine_Mess

       Stalk ME and you won’t be dealing with a kid with a handful of Skittles.

  • Cullersjr

     Has anyone seen Bill Clinton comments about this.  This event is really going to hurt the stand your ground laws

    • Wyldon

      I think the only thing about Stand Your Ground that should change is who ultimately decides if charges should or shouldn’t be filed based on A THOROUGH AND COMPLETE HOMICIDE INVESTIGATION when the alleged  self-defense ends in death or severe physical injuries. 

      If the DA believes there’s enough evidence under such circumstances to prove a claim was not self-defense, then hopefully  to trial the case goes.  However, in such cases, if the DA believes there’s not enough evidence to charge someone, a grand jury should be compulsory so ALL evidence can at least be argued by representatives of the self-defense claimant and the alleged aggressor. 

  • Top Shotta

    Great article. Too many people are ready to rush to judgement when in fact we really do not know what might have actually happened. The only thing I’m sorry for is the fact that people are trying to have the Government repeal the Castle doctrine (Stand your ground law) when it serves to protect those that are genuinely in fear of their lives. 
    I agree that self discipline would have kept Zimmerman out of this predicament but this is one of those laws that I feel should not be affected because of one person’s bad judgement. 

  • rone

    Hello Jason:
    Congratulations, an excellent piece. The power of life and death that rests in our pockets, waist bands and carry bags should be a constant reminder of our responsibility to be the grown up in every situation………….the other choice is irreversible. Some states call it Conflict Dispute Resolution, remaining in the adult state and as some of you will learned after years of marriage, just “shut your mouth” it is not worth the price.

  • Mike

    Thank-you to all responsible firearm owners and may we be as responsible in our teachings(theory) as we are in actions.
    Great article Jason! Thank-you again for being both considerate, respectful and insightful.

    -Mike

  • TriGlideRider

    Anytime one is carrying a weapon, there is added responsibility to be prudent and use good judgement. This is not a race issue, to be a responsible person is even more important and the weight is on you to make the right decision any time you carry a weapon. After you fire the gun, it is too late to change your mind.

  • PhilRearden

    It seems that there are still a lot of people that are assuming facts that are not yet established and are based of heated rhetoric or manipulated news reports such as those on NBC.  We need to wait until we know as much of the truth as is possible before making up our minds.  Why do so many assume that Z’s action was based on race or that he provoked TM so much that he had no choice but to try to defend himself.  We just found out today that the the word that was assumed to be a racial slur was the word “cold”.  What if and I say “what if” Z was just being a good citizen who was approached and physically attacked and did not pull his gun until he needed it to save  his own life.  Of course, Trayvon might have been provoked enough to give Z a cussin’ but who took it to a physical level?  That is important!!!!

  • Jmkozma

    I agree I dont have all the info on this case, however if you claim stand your ground then STAND YOUR GROUND an do not follow. Also Self Defense, HMMMM a case can be made (media in Ohio) that by following Trayvon that this could constitute an act of agression IE starting a fight thus you start a fight you cannot escalate to deadly force. So in some minds Zimmerman broke the law twice.
    The Problem I have is that they are deamonizing Zimmerman with out all the facts and painting Trayvon as an inocent angel and HE WASNT!!! Now not being a perfect angel and having a few issues in life doesnt warrant a death sentence either. We all need to chill and wait for all the facts to come out before we judge this case.

    • Another_Fine_Mess

      Demonizing? Zimmerman KILLED a man. NEEDLESSLY. Zimmerman INSTIGATED the altercation by following Martin.

      Two lawmakers who crafted the Stand Your Ground Law say the measure doesn’t apply to the shooter of Trayvon Martin, a Miami teen shot by a neighborhood watch volunteer, and he should face charges.

      “He has no protection under my law,” said Former Sen. Durell Peaden, one of the law’s authors, The Miami Herald reported. “They got the goods on him. They need to prosecute whoever shot the kid.”

      Peaden said that when George Zimmerman told dispatch that he was following Martin he lost his defense under the law.

  • Sheepdog1946

    Please, people, PLEASE!  We accuse the media of editing the tapes yet the comments here say Zimmerman was told by the police to stop following Martin.  According to the tapes I’ve heard played, they said he “didn’t need to do that” when Zimmerman stated he was following Martin.  That is not an order – that is simply a statement of opinion by a 9-1-1- dispatcher.  I’m all in favor of waiting until all of the facts have been presented, following a thorough investigation, before drawing a conclusion but let’s not make mistatements along the way.

    • Another_Fine_Mess

       GARBAGE

      It is CLEARLY the INTENT of the 911 Operator to DISENGAGE Zimmerman from his pursuit. I don’t know about YOU, but when I’m carrying I try and AVOID altercations.

  • Puttippos-835

    RE: Paragraph 4.

    You are completely incorrect.  

    I.E. if you follow me down the street in a car, get out and point a gun at me how do I not have the right to DEFEND myself against your egregious gun pointing?

    Wow.

    By your logic in #4 if you are on an after dinner stroll in the park and some dude trailing you in his car jumps out and draws a firearm on you. He can justifiably shoot YOU for drawing your CCW. 

    • PhilRearden

      Why are we talking about Zimmerman pulling a gun?  Obviously he did, but all the evidence that we have so far seems to point to the gun being pulled while Martin was on top of him beatting the crap out of him.  If he had pulled the gun earlier, how did he get to it while lying on his back. 
      If I understand some of the people who have posted, the act of following someone is sufficient aggression to engage in self defense actions.  So, if I notice that someone is followning me -just following me – then it is o.k. to turn around and shoot him.  Is that right?  Or if I am young and strong, it is o.k. to beat the guy to death for following me.  Is that the way it is now? 
      I think not.  We need to know who got phiysical first.  Merely following someone or calling someone a dirty name is not sufficient to warrant physical violence and I don’t care how insulted or disrespected you feel.  PERIOD

      • Puttippos-835

        Good points.

        So I can follow people around and verbally challenge them and then when they respond to my provocation I can blow them away?As far as I know someone carrying a CW is held to a higher standard of avoidance then otherwise.  Putting oneself into a confrontational situation by choice while carrying a deadly weapon seems like an obvious violation of the duties and responsibilities of someone who chooses to carry.So, whatever party started the shoving may well be guilty of assault, however the the individual who had an opportunity to depart the scene, but instead chose to bring himself and his deadly weapon into an unnecessary and avoidable confrontation certain needs to pay the penalty.

        • PhilRearden

          So, now we know that Zimmerman verbally challenged Martin?  Where did we get that new fact?
          I gueess we will have to agree to disagree that if you stupidly put yourself into a dangerous situation that you should allow yourself to be be beaten to death.

          • Puttippos-835

            So, Zimmerman called 911 and then, somehow, managed to end up out of his car and in an altercation.  Maybe he was miming at the guy he shot fatally. Are you missing the point that if you are licensed to CC a weapon you are also held to a higher standard of behavior? How are you missing this?  Are you missing this? Hello Hello? Are you suggesting people should not be allowed to carry weapons?  Police are duty bound by law to engage with potentially dangerous situations, CCW permit holders are duty bound by law to disengage when possible.  

          • Puttippos-835

            Anyway, I just wanted to point out that Paragraph #4 is, if you happen to follow legal precedent, false.

          • Another_Fine_Mess

             We KNOW Zimmerman STALKED Martin, it’s on the 911 tape. We KNOW Zimmerman INSTIGATED the altercation. Want Proof? If Zimmerman had stopped STALKING Martin as requested by the 911 Operator there would not have been ANY physical altercation.

      • Puttippos-835

        Since this entire situation is clouded in conjecture i’m trying to get at fundamental elements most people can agree on.  Zimmerman observed someone he thought was dangerous enough to warrant a call to 911. 911 told him to sit tight. Zimmerman exited his car to approach this person he thought was dangerous enough to warrant consuming precious 911 phone capacity over. And here we are.

      • Another_Fine_Mess

         There is NO “evidence” Zimmerman was beaten. Have you seen the video taken 30 minutes after the shooting in the Sanford Police Sally Port? Zimmerman walks FLUIDLY, NO indication he’s in ANY discomfort. He doesn’t even have a BAND-AID on his head. Granted the EMT’s would have cleaned him up but surely having your head repeatedly pounded into a concrete sidewalk as Zimmerman claims would at LEAST justify the use of a BAND-AID! His clothing is intact. no obvious tears, and certainly no obvious blood stains.

        Zimmerman is a LIAR.

        • jimjamer

          Duh … no evidence except a police report, an EMT report and a witness who saw him getting pounded.

          • Wyldon

            Those police reports were written up to just over eight hours after the shooting and none of the reports (well, those released to the press that is) reflected any officer asking Zimmerman the most basic of questions under the circumstances:  “What happened?” 

            Unless there’s another officer who responded and questioned Zimmerman at the scene, the first two on the scene did not question Zimmerman about the shooting and one even specifically states he didn’t.

            It seems the first questions came after he got to the police station.  Unless questions were asked, which I’d think would be the first order of business after attempting to revive the alleged victim, and someone didn’t like his answers.  I’m certain a prosecutor will seize upon the lack of questioning of the shooter at the scene…if this indeed didn’t happen.

            Folks should probably stop proclaiming they know the extent of Zimmerman’s alleged injuries until evidence is actually shown of the injuries.  A person who is “beaten to wthin an inch of his life” isn’t leaving the scene in patrol car, but an ambulance.

  • PhilRearden

    There have  been a lot of people who have said, in defense of initiating a CCW law, that if the thugs knew that someone might be armed then there would be fewer thugs attacking citizens.  In the aggregate that may be true, but not in the individual case.  Now, I am not suggesting that Martin was acting in a thuggish manner because we don’t have the facts yet, but  if Zimmerman was the aggressor and pulled his gun while still standing, then why did he allow himself to be knocked down and beaten?  Admittedly, there was some stupidity at play here, but let’s wait and see what the facts are before we start assigning blame. 
    Good citizenship should not be reason to be beaten.  Zimmerman knew his neighbors, some of whom were obviously black, but he did not recognize Martin and he wanted to know more about who was walking around his community.  I have been stopped and asked about my intentions when neighbors have not recognized me when I am at or near my cousins cabin.  Not only did I not beat anyone up, I thanked them for looking out after the place.  (I was armed at the time too but until now no one knew it but me.)

  • Sgtyoung85

    I read these posts and a lot of people are saying he was attacked while heading back to his vehicle. He shouldn’t had left the vehicle to begin with. Zimmerman was a SELF APPOINTED neighborhood watch person. He wasn’t even appointed by his own neighborhood. I live in the city, I see plenty of suspicious looking people and know a few ex-felons that live in my neighborhood. A few years ago we had a problem with these young thugs hanging on the block selling drugs, smoking dope right outside like it was nothing . Did I want to confront them and beat the crap out of them, and arrest them myself of course I did. But that would had landed me in jail. So every time we witness a crime we called 911, and we were consistent about it. Well it worked, by the middle of the summer undercover cops swarmed the area and made a key arrest , the rest of the summer was peaceful. That’s how its supposed to work.

    • RaeDoe

       It is too bad that we have come to think that everything has to be done by the police.  “When seconds count, the police are only minutes away.”  If the facts turn out to mirror Zimmerman’s version of events, he should be given a citizenship award.  As Zimmerman has discovered, being a good neighbor is not without its dangers, but he no one has to be a part of a formal organization in order to feel obligated to look after his community.  I just don[‘t think that Zimmerman tried to grab Martin or “take him into custody” or anything like that.  I suspect that Martn felt disprespected and acted like a thug.  As a  policeman (that got fired) said, “Live like a thug – Die like a thug”.
      Regardless of how stupid my words or actions might have been, if someone tries to beat me to death, I am going to use any method necessary to live.

      • Pcolacookie

        And why do you suspect that Mr. Martin “acted like a thug”? Mr. Martin had no criminal record.  His school history was all non-violent activity– graffitti, marijuana residue in a baggie etc. Mr. Zimmerman on the other hand does have a violent criminal history.  Please expound.

        • RaeDoe

          A lot of people have drawn conclusions with little or no solid evidence to support their point of view.  Likewise, I am using only Zimmerman’s reported explanation that Martin approached him because he had been following him and instead of giving Zimmerman a cussing or something he got physical and (in my opinion) was only motivated because he felt like he had been “disrespected”.  The rule of the thug is to not be disrespected without severe pain being inflicted on the source of the perceived disrespect.  We will all know someday, I hope, whether that scenerio is accurate of not.  If it is, I stand by my remark.

          • RaeDoe

            Further, wasn’t there something on Martin’s facebook page about taking a swing at a bus driver or something like that.  If that is true it seems that Martin may have had a propensity to turn to physical assault to settle disputes.  In this case, his target was armed.  That was his mistake.
            Regardless of what Zimmerman did wrong, he did not deserve to be assaulted.  (If that is, in fact, how it went down.)

          • Wyldon

            I’d imagine if he was truly a “thug”, Zimmerman, at minimum, would’ve earned a middle finger when Martin realized he was following him.  It’s not unreasonable to believe Martin initallly got closer to the vehicle to “…check me out” as Zimmerman said.  Upon getting a closer look at the man following him in truck, Zimmerman doesn’t report the thuggish words he later reports before having to kill Martin.  I’d think a “thug”, under your scenario of feeling disrespected, wouldn’t have run away.  He’d have challenged him to get out of his car and exchanged words on the spot. 

            I’m not saying your scenario is wrong, but if we’re judging Martin based on a persona that may or may not have been who he truly was, he would not have fled, only to confront Zimmerman as a thug later.  Words would no doubt have been exchanged at Zimmerman’s truck….but, he couldn’t even report a middle finger nor expletive being uttered by Martin.

            So, if the thug persona is what people want to run with, his running away with no words exchanged, nor threats made is contrary to the thug life…yet, he morphed into one just minutes later now face-to-face with no vehicle separating the two?  It seems like an incongruent argument…if one is to believe things unfolded precisely as Zimmerman described.

  • Captain Ron

    As far as I know, Zimmerman did nothing more than observe and call 911.  He did not approach, brandish his firearm or initiate a conversation with Martin.  If anyone has evidence to the contrary I would like to see or hear it.  Not hearsay!  There has been a lot of speculation and that has been used instead of facts.

    While what Zimmerman did may not have been very smart, I don’t see anything he did before the shooting that was illegal.

    • Another_Fine_Mess

       If you listen to the 911 recording you hear his tell the operator he was following Martin. He continued to follow Martin after specifically being advised against doing so by the 911 operator, If Zimmerman had not made the decision to stalk another man while he was carrying a firearm Martin would not have been killed.

      • PhilRearden

        How do you know that he continued to follow Martin?  I heard that he sadi, “OKAY” to the dispatcher and was returning to his truck with the altercation occurred.

        • Another_Fine_Mess

          From what I’ve read he did NOT stop following Martin.

        • Wyldon

          He never said he was returning to his truck, Phil.  When he explained to the 911 operator that he lost Martin and was unable to give an address because he ran through a “cut-through” (I believe that was his word), he and the operator continued their conversation.  This conversation led to Zimmerman telling the operator how the police could get to the mailboxes which is where his truck was parked, “Look for my truck”, I believe are his words. 

          Prior to this, the operator asked him if he was going to wait for the police at the mailboxes to which he replied, “Yeah….that’s fine.”  He then quickly changed his mind and asked, “Actually, could you have them call me and I’ll tell them where I’m at?  The operator agreed.

          It’s clear, from where George’s and Trayvon’s deadly encountered occurred that George, for whatever reason, had no intentions of meeting the police at the mailboxes.  So, why?  Where did he go?  It’s a very reasonable question and even if he sticks to the version his father has shared with FOXOrlando, “he was looking for an address to give police”, how did he end up behind the homes where he knew Martin ran to about two minutes earlier?  Fair questions which makes a reasonable mind question, hmmmmmm?  Factor in the 16 y/o’s statements to what she heard, and now we have a mess for a jury to have to sift through.  It is quite plausible that Zimmerman actually went looking for Martin…I believe that’s the narrative the prosecution will be offering.  No facts support either scenario of returning to vehicle versus actively seeking Martin’s whereabouts. 

          “The air of impropriety in the absence of clear proof of impropriety, can be just as damaging.”

  • OldSoldier

    I’m new
    here….posting for the first time…..and confess I didn’t go back through the
    entire list of comments. I apologize if this has already been said.

    This case has been sad, but intriguing to me from the start….

    The thing
    that has bothered me from the begining is that a neighborhood watch has no authority
    to interfere with anyone.  Especially if no crime is being comitted…  Note
    the name “neighborhood WATCH”. The whole point is to be the eyes and
    ears of the police and report suspicious acts to the proper authorities – who can’t be
    everywhere – to investigate.

    I ‘m sure the
    facts that have been reported are incomplete, and likely inaccurate, but once
    he called 911, his job was done! ZERO authority to ask what someone is doing,
    where they’re going, and certainly no authority to apprehend anyone or draw his
    weapon.

    This is a tragedy that could have, and should have been
    avoided.  No excuse!

    • PhilRearden

      What evidence do you ahve that he did anything other than call the police.  It seems that his big mistake was to allow Martin to observe his following.  

      Someone awhile ago, said that when he followed Martin he lost his defense.  Really?  So if I find someone seems to be following me, then it would be alright for me to beat the crap of them.   Right?  Well, if I tried to do that and were to wind up in the hospital or the morgue, would ithave  been right for the guy to defend himself from me? 

      • Wyldon

        Jeb Bush, Dennis Baxley, Burrell Peaden all said he lost the ability to claim self-defense under Stand Your Ground when he followed Martin.  That is why the Zimmerman narrative is, “I was returning to my truck when I was jumped…or confronted by Martin.”  He can’t say, “After losing sight of Martin (on the 911 tape), I left directions for the police to look for my truck at the mailboxes and to call me and I’d tell them where I was at while I continued looking for the ‘***hole and f***ing punk i was determined to not let get away.”  He can’t say that.  So, he’ll have to convince folks he was jumped.  He may have been trying to return to his truck, but he nevertheless ended up where he’ll have to explain how he got back there.  We know Martin was back there somewhere….he saw him run between the townhomes which was the shared, ungated backyards of the residents…and that’s where Martin was killed.

        And, two people walking down the sidewalk is one thing, one apparently following the other is normal.  but, when you attempt to disengage from someone you notice is following you in their truck and you run where the truck can’t go, and the next thing you know the person is back there with you….that most certainly isn’t normal and is threatening.  Eliminate race and replace the 17 y/o boy with a 17 y/o girl and tell me she has no reason to fear.  Boys, young men, and adult men also experience such fear.  Zimmerman allegedly experienced such fear that night.  Why isn’t it in the realm of possibility, for some, that Martin’s running from Zimmerman’s vehicle pursuit was indicative of fear?  It is reasonable conjecture to state Zimmerman seemed to go out of his way considering where he and Martin met up.  That conjecture isn’t proof, but it leads to tough questions for Zimmerman.

  • Another_Fine_Mess

     Two lawmakers who crafted the Stand Your Ground Law say the measure doesn’t apply to the shooter of Trayvon Martin, a Miami teen shot by a neighborhood watch volunteer, and he should face charges.

    “He has no protection under my law,” said Former Sen. Durell Peaden, one of the law’s authors, The Miami Herald reported. “They got the goods on him. They need to prosecute whoever shot the kid.” 

    Peaden said that when George Zimmerman told dispatch that he was following Martin he lost his defense under the law.

    • PhilRearden

      You are right.  It seems that the “Stand Your Ground Law” does not apply.  Now, what is the reason that a simple self-defense law could not be applied. 

      • Wyldon

        it could be, if the case goes to trial and zimmerman convinces a jury devoid of racial or political agendas that, while he admits he shouldn’t have followed martin, he realized his mistake and began to return to his truck.  that’s when he was jumped. 

        as far as i go, if i was sitting on the jury, he’d have to convince me that while i believe his statements to 911 were indicative of a man who believed he was following a “suspect” in some crime, he later realized he was in over his head and sought to get back to the safety of his truck. 

        his 911 call, ironically, since syg doesn’t protect him, could be the reason why a fact-driven, or in the absence of concrete facts, a reasonable jury, doesn’t believe his story.  perhaps, he made one 911 call too many?  he’ll have to explain his mindset with “these ***holes…they always get away”, “f**king punks ( i didn’t hear “coons”), his initial pursuit of martin and his subsequent decision to not wait for the police at the mailboxes that he initially agreed to, but quickly changed his mind.

  • John Smith

    finally…SOMEONE ELSE OUT THERE WITH A BRAIN IN THEIR HEAD THAT IS FIRING ALL OF THE SYNAPSES IN THE RIGHT ORDER!!! WOW!  Mr. Hanson, If you would be so kind as to contact me by email, I need a little help with an issue involving interstate commerce…  [email protected]  Thank you…I needed to hear the right words from someone, even if it wasn’t what I want to hear!  Thank you.

  • PhilRearden

    I continue to be amazed at what is continually being stated as fact when there is no evidence to support the claims.  I do not know that Zimmerman ever said anything to anyone other than the 911 operator.  In my state if someone assaults me but then is in retreat and I shoot him or hit him with a two by four, I am going to jail.
    Where is it written that someone that is CCW’ing is held to  a higher standard?  What is that standard.  We have evidence that Z was returning to his truck (retreating) Further, it is said that Martin confronted Z by asking him if he had a problem.  When he said “NO”  Martin said “Well you have now.”  Since that exact same scenerio has happened to me, I believe it.
    If you have proof or evidence that Z approached Martin, or that he was not returning to his truck, or that he was not having the crap beaten out of him, please present it.
    ABC has apologized for the first video of Z and has presented a photo later that was a close-up that showed the injuries.  Someone said that the police did  not interview Z, yet the news has said that he was interviewed for about 5 hours.
    We need to wait for the evidence.  Whoever got physical first was the aggressor.  If it was Z, then he is deep doo doo.  If it was Martin, then it was a good shoot.

    • Wyldon

      the problem with your version is it completely discounts the other version as told by the 16 y/o girlfriend who it has been confirmed was on the phone with martin.  the case didn’t go to a grand jury, because angela corey’s reputation is, “she rarerly if ever uses a grand jury.”  she spoke to that, also when taking on this case.

      nevertheless, there’s no proof zimmerman was returning to his vehicle…that is what he says, but that doesn’t make it true.  so, all the evidence leading up to that lethal encounter has to be factored and weighed to determine what likely happened consistent with what was said, and what was done that IS known.

      unless martin’s grilfriend is discredited, what she’s stated can’t just be ignored, because it makes the case not so clear cut suddenly.  consistent with zimmerman’s 911 call, he lost martin.  consistent with what the girlfriend said martin told her, he thought he lost zimmerman…clearly he had.  then she said martin said he’s behind him again.  and, there’s no doubt in her statement that martin did “confront” zimmerman with “why are you following me?” to which she heard, presumably zimmerman, respond, “what are you doing around here?”  if her story is to be believed, then martin had a right to turn and confront the unknown figure following him….in the dark.

      with such conflicting stories, it’s clear someone is lying.  is zimmerman another susan smith, charles stuart, or ashley todd, trying to make the events fit the crime, because he realized his following made him look like the instigator?  or, despite the ill-advised following, and i believe he likely was back there looking for martin, was zimmerman truly trying to return to his truck after not waiting for the police at the mailboxes?

      hopefully an unbiased jury can sort through the bs, but i find it unlikely any such thing will exist in this case.

  • guest

    The dispatcher did NOT order Zimmerman to stop following Martin. They simply said “we don’t need you to do that”. That is not an order, and you have now contributed to the “Zimmerman disobeyed the police” lies that are spreading around the web.

  • Instructor for the Florida CWL

    FACTS, FACTS!        WAKE UP AND SMELL THE GUNPOWDER! 
    No witness no evidence!  All would be witnesses stories change, with purgury charges explained….are you 100% sure?…..it was dark!  THE SPECIAL PROSECUTOR COULD NOT BRING IT TO THE GRAND JURY BECAUSE THERE WAS NO CASE!

    POSSIBILITY:
    Will public opinion and pressure force a political move to arrest for a lesser charge? More than likely,
    but again, FACTS.

    OPINION:
    With a CWL in Florida………..an arrest will be an off the record quid pro quo between Zimmerman and the special prosecutor. After the parade……………he walks.  

    • TX. Instructor

      THE FACTS:
      The young man was lost in his formative years, when he was taught he could wear, do, say and go anywhere he wanted.

      FACTS:
      You cannot cash a check wearing a hoodie at my bank…………if they allow it at your bank, you should change banks. Its not a matter of the right to but, is it right! To teach a person in this age to be less than forthcoming in their appearance, posture and attitude is a disservice at the least.

      • TEXAS

        TEXAS, SIMILAR TO FLORIDA
        We have the CASTLE LAW, which actually has more teeth than the Florida so, if Florida is to strict for you, DON’T MOVE TO TEXAS!

        In Texas, you don’t need a hoodie or the dark of night to get shot and 98% of the population knows it. The few that don’t are transplants that don’t take the time to research the law………………………..does Joe Horn ring a bell? 

        SHOT FOR STEALING A TV AND STERIO FROM A NEIGHBOR, the two victims in that case were from an Island country and obviously did not do their homework, because Joe was protecting his neighbors property when he shot them……………they were not wearing hoodies, it was not dark and they did not move aggressively towards him……..they, were thieves.

        Joe Horn was no billed by a grand jury. Although it cost every penny he could scrape together and his house and his future income. 

  • Bubba

    Since the left kicked Zimmerman out of the Hispanic community and baptisted him Caucasian, I wonder if he will still vote for Democrats or join all the other angry white males in the Republican party.

    • Bubba

      Please turn on your sarcasm app fro my post above.

  • Nitefire1

    Sounds like they will sacrifice this guy.

  • CCA

    THE BOTTOM LINE IS . THEY TOLD ZIMMERMAN TO STOP FOLLOWING HIM AND THAT IS WHAT HE SHOULD HAVE DONE BUT HE MADE THE CHOICE TO KEEP FOLLOWING HIM AND THIS HE DID NOT DO . HE CAUSE THIS TO HAPPEN AND HE SHOULD BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR HIS BAD CHOICE

  • PhilRearden

    Take a hint.  If you try to beat someone up, you might get shot.  This is even more stupid that going to a gun fight with a knife.

  • Loharle321

    The fact that Zimmerman followed and confronted Trayvon made it his responsibility.  He did NOT have the right to stand his ground.  He gave up that right when he followed the kid.

    • PhilRearden

      Followed “Yes”, but at what point does any of the evidence suggest that Jorge “confronted” Martin?
      I understand that Martin may not have liked being followed, but if he decided to to beat the crap out of the guy, he made a big mistake and Jorge had no choice but to defend himself.

  • PhilRearden

    I have read all of the posts that Wylden wrote in reply to me.  They are logical and reasoned and make a lot of sense.  They are also based on facts that have not been vetted as too are the facts that seem to vindicate Z. 
    I just wish that everyone would take that approach to looking at this case.  No one yet knows what happened.  There are those close to the case that have a much better idea of the facts as they exist than we arm chair detectives.  It just bothers me when a lynch mob gathers without allowing the system to, at least, make some attempt to move in the direction of justice.
    The police did not just let Z walk that night.  They interrogated him for almost five hours but if you listent to the news you would think that he and the cops all went out for beers later.
    Perhaps, calmer heads will prevail and we will find out what happened.  I will accept a verdict in either direction, I wonder if everyone else is willing to do that.

  • Styxjr

    MACHO!!!, I don’t think this was the case. Remember he had a job to do. It’s really crazy when a mob can tell the law what to do. Also, I amaze the fear the mob puts in people. This guy is going to walk in fear for the rest of life. What is everyone so scared about to even think that Zimmerman might be innocent. Please don’t let a mob do your thinking for you. The question here is; what would you do, I know if- and I do mean if a guy was punching me and I could not defend myself and I thought my life was in danger, Yes I would use my firearm, and I really think most of everyone here would do the same. You’re not going to tell him to stop in the process and ask him —hey! how old are you, before I shoot you? let me see you I.D. I really pray for peace for both families.

  • The best thing you said is there are still to many if’s. What you read is something that someone said and it would be fair to say that they were not there.That basicly amounts to here say evidence. You and I both know that eye witness ID evidence can and will be torn apart. I believe that it was dark and raining. Trayvon was reported as being 6’3″ tall. A 6’3″ tall string bean of a kid does not pose a threat. My nephew on the other hand who is 6’3″ 265-270 lbs DE pro football player who can lift most small cars is a definite threat. I do not believe that Trayvon turned around and approached Zimmerman. Just my personal opinion. I have said that it is not likely that a 17 year old teenager talking on the phone telling his girl friend that someone is following him is LIKELY to turn around and approach that person. It Trayvon did turn around; doesn’t that give him the right to protect himself?

  • Paul_denton

    One lets get this clear Zimmerman is Hispanic two Martin attacked him when Zimmerman returned to his truck after the police told him to. Martin hit Zimmerman in the nose some how Z found himself on the concrete that’s when Martin started pounding his head into it. Z has a bloody nose and two bloody wounds to the back of his head .Martins girl friend talking to him before all this happened told him to run [he said he was being followed] and he said “NO I WILL NOT RUN” ?confrontational attitude?there’s more but these facts just came out and are not being reported by most of the media /later ya’ll

  • Dspencer5

    Patience, facts and a level head will take this country far. De Opresso Liber…..

  • Pteronarcyd

    Wow! This so-called expert is an ignoramus.

    At the end of March the known facts were all on the side of supporting Zimmerman’s story; there were no facts supporting the idea that Zimmerman was a cold-hearted, racist, stalking murderer.

    The author’s inability to comprehend English, or perhaps a sign of his sloth because it may well indicate he did his research by listening to NBC News, is demonstrated by his false assertion that the 911 dispatcher told him not to follow the suspect — the dispatcher did no such thing, and even if he had done so, the dispatcher had no authority to issue any such command.

    God save us from ignorant “experts.”

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