I’ve gotten a lot of questions about the Travyon Martin killing down in Florida. Today, I’m going to discuss that incident, along with how it relates to what I wrote about last week (jumping on top of a dumpster to escape a pack of dogs.)
First off, it seems there are still a lot of facts that we don’t know. When I first heard about the incident, it appeared Zimmerman (the shooter) made the wrong decision and I thought he was definitely going to jail.
But yesterday, I was reading about how Martin had pushed him to the ground and had tried to take the gun. Supposedly, Zimmerman was bleeding and had bruises to prove it and another eyewitness saw Martin push Zimmerman to the ground. I also found out that even though Martin was only 17 years old, he was 6’3” and a pretty big guy.
Now, if Martin did try and take the gun from Zimmerman and Zimmerman was in fear for his life, then I believe he was justified in shooting Martin. However, if Zimmerman simply chased Martin down and shot him for no good reason, then obviously he should go to jail.
Again, I think there are still a lot of facts to come out and we don’t know the full story.
But here’s what I do know: Zimmerman could have walked away. He didn’t have to follow Martin and he could have listened to the dispatcher who told him not to follow the boy.
In other words, if you’re so worried about a suspicious person that you feel the need to call the police on them, then you should not follow them and you should wait for the police to come and do their job. I’m sure if you asked Zimmerman today if he wishes he had waited, he would no doubt answer “yes.”
The problem is, there are a lot of people (men) in this country who are insecure and feel the need to act tough. When I wrote last week about how I ran from the dogs, I had a few people use inappropriate language to discuss how they felt I reacted to the situation.
Yes, I realize I could have faced the dogs and they might have backed down, but why would I take that chance when a better option would be to get on top of a dumpster? I am highly confident in my abilities to defend myself, but any day of the week I will get out of a situation (if it’s an option) so that I don’t have to put those abilities to the test.
The fact is, all of us are human and have “macho” urges we need to learn how to resist.
If you see a suspicious person, don’t try and be a hero and go confront them. If somebody flips you the middle finger on the highway, you have to force yourself not to yell at them and flip them off in response.
I realize this isn’t easy. Trust me, when someone cuts me off in traffic, I would love to give them a piece of my mind too. But I remind myself that I’m carrying a gun and that I need to act responsibly and let it go.
I guess what I’m really trying to say this week is to have self-discipline… to not be a hero… and to be secure with yourself so you don’t feel the need to show others (and yourself) how tough you are. Had Zimmerman shown self-discipline and let the police do their jobs, a 17-year-old boy may not have lost his life.
I agree with you Jason. There are still lots of missing facts but Zimmerman should have just listened to the police to stop. They were just seconds away and he had done his job. What I really want to say here is Zimmerman didn’t do the rest of us any favors, as we are all trying very hard to get concealed weapons permits accepted and honored. Stupid incidents like this set us back every time.
Very true.
I would just like to add that the media should be ashamed of themselves. Half truths and misrepresentation abound. That hasn’t helped us either.
Cobra is right. Many of us are working really hard to gain acceptance with concealed carry across the nation. This did us no favors at all, especially with several important bills in front of Congress right now that are attempting to relax concealed carry. The timing was horrible. You did us no favors here Zimmerman.
If the police were just seconds away then they should have been there when the shooting occurred. Seems more like they were minutes away. I haven’t seen the timelines together. I used to work in a publuc safety access point (911, police and fire dispatch in one location. Everything is recorded. Hopefully their time clocks were all synchronized. It’s common to pull all the tapes and dispatch records. Hopefully it’s been done. It’s easy to judge George from the comfort of our homes but we weren’t there. I’m sure George wishes he had done some things differently. If he was attacked as he reportedly says he was, then it was justifialble. Trayvon could have walked away as well, he wasn’t shot in the back. How often do we hear of a perceived disrespectful act ending in death. I don’t know what kind of person Trayvon was. Maybe he thought he would teach George some respect. The police, FBI et al will hopefully uncover the truth.
What I heard was Zimmeraman did listen to the dispatcher and stopped. He tuned to go back to his vehicle when Martin jumped out of nowhere and attacked him. And as you know Zimmerman was on the ground. Also why wasn’t Martin behind bars. He shouldn’t have even been there. He was suspended from school for having mariguanna. (sp). Why wasn’t he arrested then?
But wasn’t Zimmerman the Neighborhood Watch guy? His role is to keep an eye on suspicious people until the police arrive…
Sharpton and Jackson should be held accountable for the deliberate disinformation they’re spewing!
Please read current updates to the case before making statements. This is part of the problem now is all the commentaries without all the information. We are all doing a disservice by reacting without proper understanding or information.
What if and i say this openly what if Zimmerman would have complied and not fowllowed and then Martin broke into a house robbed someone and police couldnt locate him because he was in hidding ? what now and what would be the use of watch program. flip side he could of followed and stayed his distance i do believe.
Police did not tell him to stop following, police dispatcher said ” We don’t need you to do that”
The option was left up to Zimmerman. Like the rest of us, I am not privy to the facts, so will refrain from forming an educated opinion.
Thank you, Jason for refusing to perpetuate the polarizing racial aspects of this sad situation and for not using it as a blind, pro-gun at any cost, platform. I couldn’t agree more with your argument for responsibility and discipline. I have a friend, that also happens to be my firearms instructor. One of his mantras is: “You win every gun fight you don’t go to.”
Lauren- that is a great thought to remember and dwell upon! Patience is such a virtue. Thanks for that!
I sure agree with the gunfight win you mentioned. A gunfight should be avoided if at all possible, short of the safety of your family or yourself.
Excellent post to an outstanding article by Mr. Hanson. Unfortunately, too often tragedies like this one tend to polarize us into camps of black versus white, right-wing nutcases versus left wing pinkos, and yes, sadly, Red versus Blue. A belief in the right to keep and bear arms (and to use them judiciously) is more and more cutting across all ethnic AND political groups, and it is not helpful when my fellow Second Amendmenters immediately jump at such an incident to rail against Democrats, left wing kooks, or Obama. That type of attitude ultimately restricts our support and hurts our cause.
First of all, you don’t know that Z didn’t head back to his truck when told “we don’t need you to do that”. (“But here’s what I do know: Zimmerman could have walked away. “)
How do you know he did not walk away and was preparing to get into his vehicle when Martin approached him and proceeded to beat the crap out of him?
When he saw someone that seemed suspicious (not a known neighbor) should he have ignored it? What is the role of a neighborhood watch? Only watch from the safety of your house? See, call 911, run away?
I don’t know what the situation was, but I am not going to jump to the conclusion that Zimmerman was acting irresponsible until I know more.
From the sparse facts available right now, it appears Zimmerman exceeded
the Castle Doctrine when he left his home in pursuit of suspicious
character. He exceeded Castle when he was advised by police dispatcher to stop the pursuit.
Discharging a weapon should be the last choice of all the intelligent choices available.
Jason,
You are absolutely correct on all counts. Having the ability to defend oneself does not mean doing it instead of avoiding it in every circumstance. We have a responsibility to use common sense.
Thanks for the article on Zimmerman. My son and I have been debating this off and on since it happened. There is so much info we are missing regarding this and I believe allot of it is the media putting out what they want to put out and nothing else. The other part of this is race. Zimmerman being blamed for racially profiling Martin. I know working as a reserve officer for a short period of time that we didn’t call it racially profiling. We called it common sense which looks to me is in short demand. It only becomes a race issue when it becomes advantageous to do so. Drives me crazy.
There is a very broad line, easily seen by most rational folks, that when crossed, makes you the agressor! No matter that Zimmerman was getting his ass beat, he was the agressor. Assholes like Zimmerman, the self appointed holster sniffing cop wannabe, make the rest of us who carry every day look damned stupid. The Sanford police simply invited a Federal investigation. The only thing I want to know is, if racial harmony ever breaks out, who’s gonna pay Al Sharpton’s bills, and Jesse Jackson’s too? Let the legal system work this out, instead of inspiring otherwise peaceful folks to a frenzy.
If racial harmony ever breaks out; there will be not need for Rev AL Sharpton or Rev Jesse Jackson. If peace breaks out there will be not need for weapons. It appears that a lot of the posters are fighting against themselves. They are saying that Zimmerman is a wannabe cop, should have stayed in his car and was the agressor. Then they bring in thee REV. Al and Jackson along with media bias. This leads me to believe that deep down that we know that this shooting was not justifible.
Do you not find it hypocritical to call him a “holster sniffing cop wanna be”, and then turn around and say “let the legal system work this out”? Sounds like you have all ready made your judgement on the guy before you let the legal system do its job.
If Zimmerman’s story holds true, and he was heading back to his vehicle when TM sucker punched him, how is it that Zimmerman is the aggressor then?
BTW, it doesn’t take GZ to make us carriers look damn stupid, they just need to come here and read some of these hateful name calling replies.
We don’t know the facts but we do know innocent til proved guilty
. How about we give that a try. Did Zimmerman make a mistake if he didn’t follow the police order to not follow Travyon yes if he did as told and was attacked no. But the lynch mob is dead wrong. And why no out cry about black on black crime. Double standard Jesse and Al or Louis make no money off Black on Black crime and don’t shine a light on the Panthers the Black KKK not politically correct.
There is always an out cry on Black of Black crime. The issue is is that it shoud be an out cry on crime period. Do you say the same thing when there is white on white, brown on brown? The fact is peole kill people that are around them.
I think it was the same week that Trayvon was killed that there were 10 black kids killed and 39 wounded in Chicago. No, I don’t see the outrage. Guns are already illegal in Chicago so how could this happen?
where was Obama for all that?
Must not have been marketable enough for getting the black vote.
He makes me sick using this tragedy to milk the black community for votes.
The man has no conscience.
If the shooting is justified and IF Zimmerman didnt do anything to cause himself to be the initial aggressor…which in my state nullifies your right to use lethal force since YOU caused the problem to begin with…then he should go free without a problem.
If, however, he WAS somehow the initial aggressor and CAUSED the confrontation then his use of lethal force should be a crime.
We cant CAUSE a problem and then cry self defense when someone reciprocates.
That said, even if he did cause it….in which case his self defense plea is bogus….that still does not give Trayvon the right to do what he did.
We may find out that the details show BOTH of them as having committed a crime.
The problem is Zimmerman did several things (though NOT illegal), that lead to Travon’s death.
First he carried a weapon, which under almost every Neighbor Watch rules and regulations is a No NO! If he hadn’t, Trayvon wold be alive today.
He followed Travon after being advised by 911 dispatch NOT to.
He left his vehicle to follow Travon when he was told by 911 dispatch NOT to.
He, etc., etc.
At some point in time (because of the above actions), Zimmerman became the aggressor toward Travon.
As far as I can see it, Zimmerman should be charged and arrested. Let a jury sort it out.
FireStar M40
Look you people need to give up this argument about black on black crime. You don’t know what you are talking about! The difference between this and black on black crime or even black on white crime is that the black person would have been in jail and convicted already meanwhile Zimmerman is free!!!
Saying it don’t make it so. There were 500 murders in Chicago last year. How many people went to jail for committing them? Answer: very few!
Name one black person convicted of killing someone with a lawfully owned firearm in a self-defense situation.
Yesterday, a black man was arrested after a good self defense shoot, but he was a two time felon and did not have a lega right to own al gun. He was not arrested for the shooting. It was a “good shoot”.
BTW Who you callin’ “You People”. lol
Are you saying that the 500 murders were because of black on black crime? Some how I doubt that they were. Chicago is different world in itself. Blame the laws in Chicago that make it hard for people whether they are black, white or red to be able to purchase the tools they need to defend themselves. The murders in Chicago can’t be compared to this incident. Those murders are being investigated and more than likely arrest will be made. In this instance they know who shot Treyvon and they let him walk without an arrest. He should have at the very least been arrested and put before a grand jury and let them decide whether he should walk or be put on trial.
As far as the convicted fellon is concerned, I’d like to know what he was convicted for. Please put a link in about his story of the shoot. Without any real information I cannot make a comment on this.
Calm down! Google Sun Times.
Oh….”who you callin ‘ “You People”? Anybody who isn’t black but presume to know what black people should or shouldn’t be worried about.
You are correct sir.
I agree that a black man might have been more likely to have been arrested, but if he wasn’t would it be national news for weeks? Would there be all the careless accusations and incitement? The politicians, media, and vultures like Sharpton and Jackson don’t care about Martin, they care about their agenda. They’re more concerned about the color of the shooter than the tragic death of a young black man.
Before everyone condemns Zimmerman they need to know that according to the report he DID listen to the dispatcher and had turned around and was walking back to his vehicle when Martin approached HIM.
And you know this how?
No one knows this for absolutely certain, except for him and God, but Zimmerman said in his statement to police that after the dispatcher instructed him not to follow, he was on his way back to his vehicle and Martin followed and confronted him. And as of yesterday, there were news reports out stating that, according to the police, so far the evidence corroborated what he was saying. I’m not calling it one way or the other, but it is nowhere as simple as Martin’s family or all these protesters would have you believe.
I did not know that. Just goes to show that you shouldn’t judge unless you know all the facts.
I think you need to be giving your advise to Sharpton and Company.
And Trayvon’s girlfriend was talking to him on his cell when Zimmerman hit him from behind (from her reported statement).
WoW!!! This is a new one. Never heard that before. Whoever made the attack was the aggressor. Martin is said to have walked up to the left of Jorge and proceded to punch him out. If that is the case it has nothing to do with “stand your ground” but it is rather a case of refusing to be beat to death with whatever means is at your disposal.
I am really anxious to see the facts presented in court.
The thing is if you listen to the 911 call from Zimmerman it does not sound like he IMMEDIATELY stopped and went back to his vehicle.
It sounds like while he’s on the 911 call and been told to back off that he continues following the guy until he loses sight of him.
If what it sounds like is the case, then he was in the wrong for not doing what 911 instructed IMMEDIATELY. Not just when he felt as though it was time to stop.
When I have called 911 for stuff going on around my side of town I do what they say. I dont go looking for a problem or trying to track down bad guys.
And while Im not part of a neighborhood watch, I do keep my eyes open and alert the police to anything I think they will want to know about….gunshots outside, for instance, which has happened a number of times.
I agree that after he was told “you don’t need to do that.” He did not IMMEDIATELY stop. He says “ok”. Then the dispatcher asks for his name. He replies. “George….he ran.” At that point (maybe 5 seconds after he was told to stop pursuing), I believe he stopped because his voice changed from exertion back to what it sounded like when he was sitting in his vehicle. That is my personal opinion.
In the end though, 911 dispatchers are not LEO’s and they hold no authority. For example: As a civilian, if a 911 dispatcher told me to do CPR on someone I believed to have a blood borne pathogen, I will not get in trouble for disobeying the dispatcher.
We now know that the 911 tape was doctored by NBC so anything that we had heard on that tape might not be reality-
I read the same thing the day after the incident but can’t remember the source. Another writer also mentioned the 13 year old picture of Martin that we all see rather than his appearance at the time.
Like I have said. Here say.
Jason we went through a situation here in Bay county when Martin Lee Anderson died in a juvenile boot camp. The black community , Al Sharpton, Jessie Jackson, the black panthers protested and also marched for justice. The boot camp guards were put on trail, but all were found innocent of any wrong doing. Martin Lee died of sickle cell disease, which his family had known he had since birth. So we need to wait and let all the facts come out, and they will.
Mr. Hanson,
How do we know that Mr. Zimmerman did not listen to the dispatcher. I, for one, don’t even know how far away from his vihicle he was when the shotting occurred. Was he close enough to have been trying to “walk away”? For a CIA agent, you seem to jump to a lot of conclusions without having enough facts. Or maybe you do! How far away from his vehicle was he?
I have never been a part of a neighborhood watch group so I don’t know what they are instructed to do if they see something that is suspicious. Can you enlighten me! Seriously!!!
I remember a grouip in New York that became fairly famous several years ago. I can’t remember their name now, but they all wore red shirts. It seems that they were call “something Angels”. Of course they went out as a group and were never armed as I recall.
Guardian Angels I think
As James stated they were called the Gardian Angles. They did not carry weapons. You are right. They did wear RED to ID themselves and worked in groups.
I believe it was Red Berets.
Jason:
Check this out: On CNN Tuesday (Piers Morgan), a black reporter/friend of Zimmerman clarified and disputed some prior “facts.” Zimmerman isNOT a big guy–he’s a LITTLE guy–about 5′ 9″ and 140 or so pounds, which if true make him close to the victim’s height and weight. And if so, this makes Z’s self-defense claim seem more credible.
When seconds count the police are just minutes away. Don’t judge til all facts are known. I do wonder if the watch group Zimmerman is in has a way they are able to show who they are like a day glow vest with who they are on it? Too many if and or buts in this case. All need to back off til the facts are known.
I don’t kow if Zimmerman was “Hotdogging” it or not, but if he was not the one to use phisical force first then we should be careful of calling this a “bad shoot”. He may have “disrespected” Trayvon but in no world that I live in do I want to be beaten because someone feels as though he has been disrespected by me.
Point number two is that if this is a “Good Shoot” then we need to remember that if we do not hang together then we will certainly hang separately.
(Yeah, sure. I just made that up. lol )
People who have never lived in a gang infested or crime infested neighbor hood set back and have all the answers! That is what thugs and gang bangers do they attack, rob, and kill anyone they perceive as DISRESPECTING them.
Good points made by several – hysteria is running wild and has no place in this situation.
In my concealed carry class, it was impressed upon us repeatedly that it was incumbent upon those bearing weapons to avoid confrontation if at all possible, even if it means swallowing some pride and taking the high road in many situations. It can (and likely will be) argued that Zimmerman created the environment that led to hostile contact between the parties and his admission on the 911 tapes will support this. We now know that the initial homicide detective wanted to file manslaughter charges the night of the incident, but was overruled (he went so far as to complete an affidavit of his suspicions). The worst part of this (aside from a young man being dead) is that now the CCW community and our recent gains in the area of responsible ownership laws and regulations are now in jeopardy due the the intense scrutiny bearing down on this situation. All because one overzealous person didn’t have the patience to wait for the police when no lives were in imminent danger.
I liked everything you said. All but the part about “We now know that the initial homicide detective wanted to file manslaughter charges the night of the incident, but was overruled (he went so far as to complete an affidavit of his suspicions).” There are so many people that are not current with the latest of this story. They continue to spread lies and mistruth.
Zimmerman created the environment like Al Gore created the internet! A punk thug being dead is a relief to society!
I agree with you. I have felt all along that Zimmerman should have backed down once contact was made with the police and, in so many words, was advised not to follow any further. In other words, as a neighborhood watch person, he had done his responsibility at that point and should never have proceeded further.
You are right Mr. Hanson. Walking away is sometimes the best and only option. Walking away allows you to live and fight another day and keep your CPL/CCW. Domestic violence is one of the reasons you can have your CPL/CCW rights taken away. Mr. Zimmerman had a issue with domestic violence with his girl friend. How is it the Mr. Zimmermans was allowed to have a CPL/CCW license? Just another one of those many questions that needs to be answered. Trayvon Martin would be alive if he did not have his gun.
Thank you for this post. I am always very happy with what I read from you. It tkes a real MAN to do what you speak of. A man that uses the brain God blessed him with. Thank you for teaching the concept of thinking.
Mitch D’Amour
Absolutely Jason. If Zimmerman had not followed Martin, then none of this would have happened. We can’t ask Martin, but is it reasonable that he feared for his life especially when he saw Zimmerman had one? Isn’t it reasonable when someone follows you to defend yourself if they keep following you no matter what you do? Zimmerman caused this. He had a gun, what did he have to prove, that he knew how to stick it in someone’s chest and pull the trigger? This situation could have been avoided and should have been, by Zimmerman because he started it. Granted, not all the facts are out – but why was Zimmerman out of his car? Zimmerman should be criminally liable for this because he was carrying a gun.
You can play what if all day long. What we do know is that Trayvon is dead. Approached by a person in an unmarked car, not in uniform, no badge or ID and no right to ask any questions from a person walking down the street. If a person is talking on the telephone to his girl friend telling them that someone is following him; how likely is it for that person to turn around and chase or pursue the person following them? Not likely.
Do we know that Zimmerman initiated a conversation with Marthin?
What deliberate disinformation would that be. Just asking.
Computerman, you stated you “heard”. In court, they call that hearsay. He was not suspended for school for having marijuanna so why would he be arrested. He jumped from nowhere. Man please.
Lets suppose z had let the boy walk away. What if that action lead to another innocent being harmed. One who couldn’t defend themselves. It happens and the let’s not get involved attitude is doing great harm to a once great country.
The reason Zimmerman was not and should not be charged is right here. Was he not the sharpest tool in the shed. I would say no he wasn’t. But that does not take away his right to self defense. And here is the law to back it.
776.041 Use of force by aggressor. —The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:
(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or
(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
****(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or
(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.
We do not have all the facts but this appears to have been potentially avoidable and it is certainly making the passage of a stand your ground law in Iowa much more difficult in the legislature since anit gun forces are convinced this will happen at least daily if such a law is passed here.
When we decide to carry a firearm, we are accepting the responsibility that goes with that. The same is true when driving a 3000 lb weapon on the highways. Both are lethal and both require responsibility. We do not know the extent of how responsible Zimmerman acted and we will not know until the trial comes out.
What I do know is that when an organization puts out a $10,000 bounty on a man’s life (as the New Black Panther’s have done) and the media doesn’t give that the same publicity, something is seriously wrong in our country.
Also, during St. Patrick’s Day weekend, there were 49 shootings in Chicago. 35 of these shootings were against unarmed victims, one of which was a 6 year old sitting on her front steps. Why isn’t the media outraged with those statistics? That sickens me!!
I did a lengthy, articulate analysis of my take on this case, and it was eaten. ZImmerman needs to be investigated for doing a number of things he hnew were wrong, and the police should be investigated for treating him like a Good Ol’ Boy. I was a deputy sheriff, and wish to know why no investigaton was conducted that night. Why wasn’t he tested for drugs and alcohol? why wasn’t he taken to the station and interrogated? It seems he told the police on scene that he was attacked and they closed the case right thtere and let him go. All possible evidence is now no longer in existence. The one question that bothers me the most, was zimmerman carrying openly or concealed. If he was carrying concealed, how would Martin know there was a gun to go for? That has not been answered at all.
My biggest thing about this story is 1) Why did Zimmerman not comply with the police dispatcher? 2) If Zimmerman had pulled a gun on me with out a reason for it, I would also do whatever it takes to protect myself and get the gun away from him. 3) Zimmerman’s story Keeps changing to fill in questions which is usually a good sign he is lying about what happened.
Really? Your response to someone pulling a gun on you is to take it away from them? Yeah, that’ll really teach ’em….
Actually Eric, Mr. Zimmerman’s story has never changed, nor have the police reports. It might be better if you actually read the reports before you comment on them.
you are assuming Zimmerman pulled a gun. That is a 3 year sentence in Florida even with a ccw. You can’t use it for a leverage in an argument.
i believe in what you say but this story actually is 2 stories it is one of a man that has been advised and i say ADVISED to say in his can , Now I’m like you if there is anyway in this world i can let the police earn there paycheck i will because just because i carry a weapon which i do does not turn me into Superman nor do i think that because i carry a gun i think I’m the answer to stop crime .I carry to stop a death in one way or another that’s it and when I strap it on daily i always look at it as a prison sentence because if used for any reason that’s not lawful that’s where it will put me. But as a advisement he did not break the law to leave his car but he did use very bad judgement and yes like you say he would think differently know i bet, but to now the 2’nd story he was engaged with a 6.3 person and at that time he did not know his age all he knew was this person was knocking him to the ground breaking his nose brushing up and trying for his gun while yelling for help .With none coming he used the last choice which is to use his weapon now afterwords you find out he was only 17 years old well let me ask how many 17 or 16 or 15 year old kids are now serving time for MURDER with yes parents saying how good there sons were WELL YES there always nice at home but ask all the people serving time now what they did once they left the house and got on the crazy streets filled with pressures from other kids and gangs.And by the way the hoody syndrome well heres a eye opener it was not up on his head till after he was being watched and followed so everyone drop the hood and just zip them up because this was not the reason ..Now which none of this gives anyone the right to look at changing a gun law which works for a person who used bad judgement on a ADVISEMENT to stay in a car .We as a country has taken this to far i mean to far because it has now been turned into a racial thing as far as the WHITE HOUSE has came out to say and that’s wrong it was just bad judgement for leaving his car story (1)and then saving his life story story (2)at most he could get obstruction or some where in that area if found guilty for bad judgement but not guilty for saying his life.I think this is being blown way out of shape to give anti gun hating people in the house to try and further there efforts to try and take are rights away .WHEN WILL PEOPLE STOP !.and if anyone did anything that was unlawful it was a organization that would be aloud to go on nation T.V. and put a bounty on a head of a not guilty american .I believe if we must believe in our governments then they must not first be challenged always by are highest officials .Don’t mind me if you read all of this I’m just a old man who served his country put my life on the line for ALL and never said i will only kill if your white we have to stop paying in the media and in life for what happen in the past and worry what it will take to make this a safer place and that will be first by remembering are amendments and stop trying and take them away or change them .And to remember a man Black Or White is always innocent until proven guilty in a court of law by his pears and no one should interfere in that.I want to keep believing there is a reason we want to be in this country not a reason we should not ….I’m done
I know what you mean about the ‘macho’ thing.
I golf a bit and the ‘macho’ men always get a chuckle out of my using ‘ladies’ clubs (theyre not) and teeing off from the front tees.
Its pretty funny, however, when theyre in the trees looking for the 4 balls they just teed off into the woods and Im down the center of the fairway half way to the green on a long par four.
I dont give a rats rear if I have to use ladies clubs in a pink bag wearing a flowery skirt and a maxipad with some bright red lipstick and a bit of eye liner….if it helps ME score better the what do I care if some hacks in the back think its funny.
I can handle my own, but I dont like the tough guy routine.
Zimmerman SHOULD have done what he was told to do.
Even if this incident results in the actual shooting being justified, my personal view is that he should lose his concealed carry license and maybe even his guns.
The reason being is that while it is a freedom and a right, guns are a huge responsibility.
Im not entirely certain that this guy IS responsible since after being TOLD to stand down and knowing he had a gun, he still continued to pursue the teen.
Since I got my CHL Ive found myself avoiding situations that Id never have even paid attention to before….such as driving down certain streets where there might be some punk trying to get into someones car. My doors are always locked, so they cant get in, but with a gun I know I may be forced into a situation where Id have to shoot someone. So just to avoid it altogether I take different paths to get where Im going.
Its about responsibility, not being tough.
If Zimmerman cant figure that out then maybe gun ownership isnt for him. At least carrying one.
I relate to your attitude about avoiding the possibility of trouble when I am carrying. It may not be true for everyone, but I know that I am much more polite and easy to get along with when I have a firearm on me.
So you don’t have to do what you’re told, but others do… I see you making a rush to judgement here that is far worse than having some guys laugh at your golf clubs (funny how that enrages you). If everything happened like it ‘should’ happen people wouldn’t have to carry proection at all. Don’t be in such a hurry to judge one side of the story.
Well Said
Well said Jason, well said……….
This notion that people who stand up for themselves are somehow insecure is rather funny. I know that people are getting tired of hiding behind their barred windows hoping the police show up in time. Honest law abiding citizens avoiding parks because of the criminal element. America didn’t always have a ‘third party’ mentality (where you run and tell instead of standing up for yourself). There is a reason CCW is going through the roof.. people are tired of having to surrender the streets to thugs and drug dealers. If this Zimmerman story continues to trend as it has been there is going to be egg on a lot of faces out there. People keep talking about what Zimmerman should have done differently, how about what Treyvon should have done differently? I’m as black as Obama is and I don’t get into situations like that. Nobody likes to see a young person die (or anyone for that matter), but I like the idea of my Grandmother afraid to answer a knock at her front door even less.
“Steve Pimm” … Well said!
I’m sick of the courtesy extended to criminals in this country due to the liberal influence on our society. The reason I carry is because I will not run!’ And as a law abiding citizen I shouldn’t have to! That’s not “macho” or “insecurity”, that’s just the way it is! Let’s stop worrying about the criminal’s color and feelings, and put the trash out of our misery!
That is right Steve, I don’t carry a gun to kill people, I carry a gun to keep from being killed.
What do you think Treyvon should have done differently? Right now are we have is a dead 17 year old that can’t speak for himself, 911 audio from people including zimmerman himself implicating himself in stalking Treyvon and using “F’ing Coon” during the call. Zimmerman’s side of it as told by a friend and Father that is allegedly a former judge. The lead investigator saying that he wanted to press charges against Zimmerman but was over ruled. And video tape that may show that Zimmerman wasn’t as hurt as reported.
What was Treyvon suppose to do differently?
LOL, yea, imagine you are on an after dinner walk in the park and some dude trailing you in his car jumps out and draws a firearm on you. How long are you gonna wait for him to explain himself before you blast him with your CCW?
—Side-pedal off the X, side-pedal, draw, Bam Bam Bam.
When you are the neighborhood watch then your job is not to run when you are reporting suspicious activity. I would expect the same behavior from someone who is willing to take ownership of a horrible neighborhood as I would of a security officer or a police officer! When we adopt a retreat mentality we will never win against punks and thugs because they seem to know the law well enough to stand their ground! There seems to be the blurring of lines here between looking for trouble and reporting it in progress and standing your ground once you found it. Proverbs 28:1 The wicked flee when no man pursues; but the righteous are as bold as a lion.
You are right that your job is not to run when you are reporting suspicious activity. Your job is to report the activity to authorities and to provide as much information as possible to them when they arrive. “I would expect the same behavior from someone who is willing to take ownership of a horrible neighborhood as I would of a security officer or a police officer!”You should not expect that from neighborhood watch. That is not their job. Neighborhood WATCH!!!If you know that law enforcement is coming, unless they are attacking you or your loved ones you need to let the police sort this out. Maybe except if someone is being attacked and you have the ability to stop it before the police get there. Your obligation of Neighborhood Watch stops there and being a good citizen and person starts.
“If you know that law enforcement is coming, unless they are attacking
you or your loved ones you need to let the police sort this out. ” Yes, he was being punched in the head several times when trying to get back into his SUV according to the police report. There is no point to a neighborhood watch if you strip them of their right to defend themselves against an attack! I lived in a neighborhood like that so I know first hand what happens and how thugs and gang bangers act when they see a “neighborhood narc” they go on the offensive just like this punk did.
That police report was based on information given by Zimmerman who by the investigating officer accounts didn’t believe him. I work with cops that believe he was wrong and should’ve been arrested.
You call Treyvon a punk but Zimmerman was the punk. If it did happen the way you say it did, Zimmerman stalks this boy. Treyvon is in fear of his life because this guy that looks like a pedifile so he used the stand your ground law and fights. Zimmerman not willing to fight like a man in an engagement he caused and decides to shoot the boy when he’s on the loosing end.
If he had done what he was suppose to do…..and of this could have been prevented.
“Looks Like a Pedifile”….
What exactly DOES a Pedifile look like? A High School teacher? A Minister in a Church? A Mailman? The Milk Man? The Garbage Collecter?
Please “Low Speed” tell us what a Pedifile looks like.
Why don’t you wait for the police and see how many there are left to be your witness in a gang infested neighborhood. I would say Zimmerman took ownership of failures of the police!
What failures? Was this neiborhood supposed to be gang infested? I haven’t read or seen anything that said that this neiborhood was gang infested. He was over zealous.
That is because the media is making a big story out of nothing! The media is now standing accused of doctoring a story to make it news worthy! Why else is the media using, old, had selected photos of both TVM and Mr. Zimmerman? One that makes people think a little boy was brutally killed by a fat white guy. TVM was 6′ 2″ and 17 not 12 like the picture the media ran with and Zimmerman is as much Hispanic as he is white, but the still continue to use white as his profile. TVM was a punk-thug-gangster and we are all better off without more like him!
There is no need to speak disrespectfully of the dead. Unless you personally knew Martin, you are not in a position to comment on what he was or wasn’t lest you be guilty of the same thing you accuse the media of doing. That type of comment does nothing to determine the true nature of the confrontation.
Give me a break! Thug trash is thug trash! That’s funny when you don’t live in a community surrounded by section 8 housing and soup kitchens you only hear about it on the news. I will comment and that there would be no need for a neighbor hood watch if it wasn’t a shit hole neighbor hood!
Sorry, but the neighborhood this happened in is reportedly a Gated Community, not a “Thug infested neighborhood” as you might think.
Jason as you stated the facts remain unknown. With that being said you are assuming that he indeed chased Trevon down resulting in a confrontation. The only facts we truly know concerning that very important piece of information is that after the operator instructed him not to, Zimmerman simply said OK. The sad thing with all of this is a teen is dead and another man has lost his life due to death by media.
I liked your article and as you were saying the car is the place to be if you feel the need to call for help thats what we pay for ., BUT WHAT HE SEEN was a 6.3 male which was bigger then him that looked suspicious and was willing to follow not to fight for his life come on people the picture is 5 years old it’s a farce and just because he was 17 after he was shot makes a difference when it’s a fight for your life, how many 17 and even younger are serving life on death row for murder who’s family has said the son could have never did something like that but it happens everyday and just because the color of his skin was black people want to turn this into a race thing when Zimmerman race is not even white to begin with.I just don’t get it are people so lost within hate that everytime there it’s a black person involved in a crime we will always hear this no wonder aa country we a slowly looking at becoming 2nd and 3rd on the totem pole because we always have to fight useless conflicts like this instead of growing stronger as a nation.If your so stern on fighting someone join the service and serve the country instead of tearing it apart
posted on NPR blog
Nobody seems able to actually find the law that actually matters, it isn’t
Castle Doctrine or Stand Your Ground, it is simple. Not many years ago any poor
man and any black man or woman who was forced to defend their life would be
arrested ON THE SPOT and it did not matter whether they were innocent or a cold
blooded killer, they were “all liars” in the eyes of racist police
departments.
Florida law protects the minority, the Black or Mexican, the
working poor or middle class.
If Bill Gates, founder of Microsoft had been in
Florida and shot Trayvon in exactly the same way and he was arrested to satisfy
the rising mob, what would happen?
Mr. Gates could be arraigned and bail set
at $100 million and he could just write a check for that amount, which he would
get back in full in a few weeks when the Grand Jury ruled one way or the other.
If it went to trial, the check would just remain in the court and if he was
found guilty, he would still get his $100 million back from the court.
But a
poor man, black, white, red or yellow is protected from having to pay a
non-refundable $5,000 to post a $50,000 bail using a bondsman. Of course the
bondsman gives no money to the court, only a promise that he will see to it he
shows up for each hearing. To pay your mortgage you have to work, so if you stay
in jail your house will be foreclosed. etc. etc.
So here is what the law
says.
The 2011 Florida Statutes
Title XLVI
CRIMES Chapter
776 JUSTIFIABLE USE OF FORCE View Entire Chapter
776.032 Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for
justifiable use of force.— (1)A person who uses force as permitted
in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is justified in using such force and is
immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force,
unless the person against whom force was used is a law enforcement officer, as
defined in s. 943.10(14), who was acting in the performance of his or her
official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with
any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have
known that the person was a law enforcement officer. As used in this subsection,
the term “criminal prosecution” includes arresting, detaining in custody, and
charging or prosecuting the defendant.
(2)A law enforcement agency may use
standard procedures for investigating the use of force as described in
subsection (1), but the agency may not arrest the person for using force unless
it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used was
unlawful.
(3)The court shall award reasonable attorney’s fees, court costs,
compensation for loss of income, and all expenses incurred by the defendant in
defense of any civil action brought by a plaintiff if the court finds that the
defendant is immune from prosecution as provided in subsection
(1).
History.—s. 4, ch. 2005-27.
Posted by Jim Macklin | March
29, 2012 1:00 AM
This is /was one of the few rational responses that Ive heard to this situation. Most of what Ive seen only serves to further inflame a bad situation. The worst possible outcome that could result from all the incendiary verbiage and breastbeating is that Mr Z could actually be guilty and the machinations of the inflammatory fringe could result in an aquital, then we would have a racially tinged disaster / conflict on our hands. May rational heads prevail.
O. C. Stevens
many good comments….sad that Trayvon or anyone was killed and that so many
will suffer the rest of their lives because of this killing that seemingly could have so easily been avoided.
as said, too many “facts” missing….and maybe Martin was attacked by Trayvon… did people notice
the 911 call contained a very negative statement something like “”them &$^#^% always getting away with stuff “” ….can’t recall the exact wording but it was a slur about “them”…so Martin, I conclude had a very negative attitude about Trayvon(a them) to start with….so if he did follow Trayvon even for a few second or a minute then returned to this car as has been said….I wonder what Martin might …repeat might have said to or about Trayvon that could have caused the youth to become enraged and attack Martin….if in fact that is proven to be true. Seems to me Martin could easily have fanned the flames in just a few seconds into a 3-alarm situation by either word or action or both…. Ego is a major cause of many a deadly encounter that otherwise cooler heads would walk away from.
With Trayvon dead we’ll most likely never know the near truth of what happened…both Trayvon and Martin would have told a very different story as they would see “it” from very different points of view….their life’s experiences most likely quite different….so their “truths” would also be different.
Do hope some good can come out of this tragedy for the future….
I understand what you meant to say but I think that you have “Martin” confused with “Zimmerman”. The dead guy was named Trayvon Martin.
With that said, there is an old saying something about sticks and stones. There in no excuse for beating the crap out of somebody because he insulted you. If your logic holds true, then you would be willing to agree that Zimmerman would have been justified in shooting Martin if he had said something to to enrage Zimmerman. Maybe Martin called Zimmerman a beaner, wetback, or whitey, or any number of other things. I don’t think that happened but if it did, I don’t think that heated words calls for anymore of a response than more heated words. NEVER PHYSICAL VIOLENCE!!!!!!!
I have heard it said many times that one of the reasons that we need CCW is that the bad guys would not know who was armed and therefore be less likely to jump someone. In other words, “An armed society is a polite society”. Well, I don’t know what happened in this case but it is food for thought.
No one knows what the facts will show when presented as the legal system is designed to do. After that we will all have a better basis for making determinations. The real problem here are the race whores that are fermenting hate without waiting for the facts very much like what happened in the Twanana Brawley and the Duke LaCrosse Team Rape situations.
If racial peace is what they want (and I don’t think they do) then I am sure that they will be flying to North Carolina where a white man was beaten by six black guys while they yelled racial epitaphs (sp).
I noticed their absence in Kansas City when two black kids chased down a white kid and dosed him with gasoline before setting him on fire. That was deemed to be Not a hate crime even though it was reported that they used racial terms during the ordeal.
I am not complaining because violent retaliation was not threatened after the above tragedies, but I am complaining that the people who seem to find wrong on only one side of the color line are themselves RACISTS.
I hear a lot of people mimicking what the liberal media has reported about the Martin – Zimmerman case. That’s why it is so blown out of proportion now. From Jason to many of you commenting, you operate on the assumption that Zimmerman ignored the 911 operator and continued to pursue Martin. Zimmerman said that once the 911 operator told him not to follow as we heard he said ok and turned around and headed back to his vehicle. He said that is where Martin came up on him and asked him if he had a problem. Zimmerman replied no and said Martin told him “you do now” and punched him in the face breaking his nose and continuing to assault him pushing him to the ground and smashing his head on the cement! In that same situation(if that is the case) I would have shot him too! Do you realize that the liberal media was exposed for chopping up the 911 calls and putting them back together on air to sound different? When the mainstream media is the liberal deceptive outlet that it is, you best be careful what you take as fact. If Martin did attack first, I believe shooting him is justified! If you are going to attack someone they have the right in my book to use whatever defense they have. That may not be the law, but it should be. If we are going to stop crime then we are going to have to get tough on in it! Touch me, my wife, my kids and you may pay a bigger price than you expected! I