Right now, I only have one child and she’s just 8 months old. But I look forward to the day when I can buy her her first .22 rifle. Since every child matures differently, I’m not sure when that day will be, but because she’s a girl, I think it’s safe to say she’ll be getting a gun a lot sooner than any son I may have.
I mention this because of what happened to a New Jersey man last week. This man bought his son a .22 rifle for his 11th birthday. He then took a picture of his son smiling with the rifle, which he posted on Facebook.
One day while he was running errands he got a call from his wife saying that four police offers were at the door along with Child Services. Apparently, someone had called the Child Abuse hotline and reported this guy because of the picture. The police asked to enter the house because they wanted to see all of the guns and to make sure they were registered and locked up.
Luckily, this guy was smart and told his wife not to let the police in.
You don’t need to register your guns in New Jersey (it’s voluntary) so they were just making excuses trying to get into the house. His wife also asked the police if they had a warrant and they said no, so she refused to let them in the house and they simply left.
The thing is, if this guy had made the mistake of letting the police in the house, no doubt they would have confiscated as many guns as they could. Even if what they did was illegal, it likely would have taken this guy months of paperwork to get the guns back.
No matter what, never, ever, ever, let the police into your house when they ask.
When I was a police officer, I was amazed at the people who would allow me to search their car and I’d end up finding drugs and marijuana. If I had to guess, 90% of people I asked said ‘yes’ and only 10% of people ever turned me down.
Now, the reason for this is obviously because people don’t know their rights and are intimidated. That’s the entire point of the police uniform and the police car with flashing lights – to intimidate you. And I’d say the police did a good job of that when they went to the New Jersey man’s house with four officers.
But the fact is, if the police have legal authority to search your house or car, etc., they are not going to ask you, they are simply going to come in. So the fact that they ask you should be a big clue that you need to say no.
Even in the police academy, the lawyers who taught the legal classes told us to always say no to the police and my wife says in law school they reiterate the same thing over and over too.
So, should you ever have the police show up at your door or ask to search your car, remember to always say no. If you don’t, it could cost you your gun collection and get you tied up in a bureaucratic mess.
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“But, I don’t have anything to hide!” “He just asked for my ID, I have nothing to hide.”
Just a foot in the door.
Unless you are driving… then ID is required
NO never … would submit to a search of my home auto or my person!!!
Something is not right with this story. I believe under NJ law, the recipient is required to have a firearms ID card which cannot be obtained until the age of 18. I know it’s a technicality, but this might be construed as a strawman purchase and theoretically, the police would be withing their rights to confiscate the weapon. I know it’s dumb, but we elected the legislators.
The child can “posses” a firearm when under the supervision of his parents or guardian. And giving a gift is not considered a “strawman purchase”. The police could not confiscate the firearm without a warrant, or compelling evidence giving probable cause of a crime being currently committed, not what someone thought a crime in the past. That’s what the warrant is for. Thanx, steve2334, for giving me a reason to post!
You need an FID to acquire a long gun, not to posses it.
A straw purchase is only a straw purchase if the person you give it to cannot pass a nics or doesn’t meet state or federal requirements.
In Texas you don’t need anything for a rifle 😀 Sorry, just bragging 😀 I don’t think Steve is trying to be an ass here and he did say “I believe” which leaves it open to a possibly not scenario. So don’t be so harsh to whip the guy!
I get it, but it seems at odds with wanting to support the LEOs and the Military. I had a co-worker who was a strong supporter of the military and a “from my cold dead hands” guy. He couldn’t answer when I asked what he would do if a squad of Marines came for his guns. (I can’t either, by the way)
Spiro, YOu and EVERY military and government official Swore and OATH to THE CONSTITUTION!! If your fellow marine buddies come for your guns than they are going against the greatness that is our 2nd Amendment! They are the ones that are in the wrong and you fight for your rights!! Cause if YOU AND the rest of the Military don’t do it and don’t see it then we are all screwed! The Military is America’s (us Civilians) defense against a tyrannical government and it is VERY important for y’all to have more Common Sense than others!
Now you were a PO too! LMAO.
If I have nothing to hide, of course I’d let them in… lol, just kidding. I hate hearing that comment from appeasers who don’t understand individual sovereignty or their most basic civil rights.
of course, YOU have nothing to hide…. but THEY always have things to find. Maybe a one ounce brown medicine bottle wiht eyedropper that has “some substance” in it….. innocent and harmless (codliver oil for our daily does?) but the cops don’t know, and can (and often DO, imagine the worst.. and act as though it IS the worst. If they don’t come in, they can never SEE anyting to even use as a made-up excuse. Tell them no. Unless they have a warrant, and a warrant must be issued on reliable representation, and must name the items/persons to be found, and the place(s) to be searched. They’d have to know WHICH guns they are after, where they are located, and privide specific reason why THIS gun is the subject of the search. Fishing is not allowed. They are NOT “the bear who went over the mountain”.
Most search warrants are written broadly. For example, it would be written for any firearm anywhere on the property. Still, they would never be able to get a baseless warrant.
I think the warrant states what they are there to look for but I don’t think it says they can NOT look for other stuff!!
search warrants can only be used for what they are attained for. If the cops are looking for guns, and they see your drugs on the table, they can’t use the drugs against you. it’s inadmissible evidence and would be dropped in a court.
“bob”, That is what you aren’t getting on this whole thing. They will still take you in for it and cause you all kind of grief AND probably get a warrant for that while you are in jail or trump up charges for a reason to keep you in jail to get the warrant for drugs cause they saw it while they were searching for weapons/guns!
I’m guessing you failed the bar exam….
Only in your dreams. Anything in “plain sight” is admissible. Even if they turn your house upside down to get it in plain sight. Once inside with a legal warrant, you are at their mercy. Only celebs and politicians get off.
@tonico!! You HIT IT ON THE NOSE Sir!!! That is exactly right!! People have not idea how many times they have let the police assholes into there car or house to be taken in cause something LOOKED like it was illegal!!
Your account of the situation is really off. His wife was not the one that turned them away. Please do your research and adjust the inaccuracy in your post:
NJ’s Department of Youth and Family Services (DYFS) came to his home, accompanied by police officers. They claimed to be responding to a call about a photo of a young boy holding a firearm. (photo above)
Without a search warrant, DYFS demanded entry into Moore’s home and access to all of his firearms. Moore was not initially there, but his wife called him.
With his lawyer listening to the exchange on the phone with police and DFYS, Moore denied entry to his home and access to his safe where he stores his guns.
When Moore requested the name of the DFYS representative, she refused to give it to him.
After threatening to “take my kids,” the police and Family Services worker left — “empty handed and seeing nothing.”
In an exclusive interview with TheBlaze, Mr. Nappen — the attorney who was listening to the entire incident via Moore’s speaker phone — added more details:
The DYFS worker repeatedly demanded access to the house and for Moore to open his safe where the firearms were stored. She said that the guns should be catalogued and checked to make certain they were “properly registered.” (NJ does not require registration, it is voluntary.)
The four police officers acted professionally, they were there at the request of DYFS.
The worker refused to identify herself. Mr. Moore demanded that she giver her name. She refused and ran away.
As of Tuesday morning, Mr. Nappen believes that DYFS is still pushing for an inspection, “which is not happening.”
Thank you for supplying those important details.
From a local paper
“Gov. Chris Christie has asked his attorney general to investigate the state’s visit to the home of a man who had posted online a photo of his son holding a military-style rifle, saying news reports raised “troubling questions” about how the case was handled.”
Good for him – the woman from DYFS should fe fired!
my buddy’s half-sister makes $87/hr on the laptop. She has been without work for 7 months but last month her payment was $20051 just working on the laptop for a few hours. Read more on Ask25.com
You know what Christopher your making a big deal out of nothing… The cops did leave without searching the house even though the wife let them in because when the husband got home he said no… The Idea of the story without making it a book that no one will read is say no to LEO…
@rick Look at my thumb…
These anti gun freaks seem to be the ones that we as americans have to be worried about along with our president and his side kick Bidden. Thanks Chris for the full story.
Your mean ZeroBamas hapless sidekick
Odd that an ex-CIA guy wouldn’t have had accurate details.
And now an ex- Police Officer! LOL…
The only thing about his credentials I’m “fairly” prepared to believe is the boy scout claim. Beyond that I, and many others, share both of your suspicions.
That sounds just like want I read, only a different order of people that were there.
Then you should go back to school.
Well you are using a generic statement of “Not letting the police into your home”. There is a big difference between letting an officer into your home and conducting a search. A search with consent can be limited or stopped at anytime.
I agree with others get the story straight and use facts not opinion.
don’t let the officer inside. Once inside, he can “see somnething” and then can run with that, even making up some cockamamie story to “justify” a full search. An ashtray on a corner table… hmmm.. marijuana ash, let’s confiscate that as “paraphernelia” and ransack the entire place.. we’re sure to find SOMETHING. As long as he’s on the porch, front door closed behind you, he can’t “see” anything, can he? Keep it that way.
You are Naive, the search starts as soon as he looks in your house. They don’t have to start dumping out boxes and looking in closets to be searching. Once you let them in, they will do as they please. They will look around till they find something to inspect, and it snowballs from there, be smart.
Mr “Retford”, you are beyond wrong on this. Once you have let them in you can NOT stop the search by your own accord. What are you going to do, manhandle him out of your house when you want him to stop? You think you saying you are no longer allowed to search is going to work? Dude, think about it!
A “search” without a warrant is limited to anything within plain sight. They are not allowed to open/close , lift/shift/move anything. Yes a search with consent can be halted by the the consenter. What is to stop a police officer from making up a story and running with it? unfortunately about the same thing that stops a random person from making up something and running with it. …..nothing. Most officers wtih this approach rarely make it a long career though.
Maybe so but courts do not believe the civilian over the officer so the officer has a better chance! AND I have to disagree unfortunately with that last statement because it is VERY apparent that those officers make it as a career and train other officers to do the same thing!
I actually worked at a department before where the citizens had the officers so terrified of making a “wrongful arrest” that they rarely arrested anyone… That sounds good to some people until you realize that someone that is afraid to do their job is not helping anyone. When word like that gets around in an area, you have anarchy. I have been very lucky to have some good instructors before. I was always told to be truthful as you and others will come to know your definition of truth. I have never been called mean nor nice, but always fair. I couldnt ask for more.
Uh. If the police start questioning you the ONLY WORDS out of your mouth is “I want a lawyer”.
Come on, for a traffic stop where you were speeding or ran a light?
I’ll refuse to talk or ask for a lawyer if the circumstances are right, but Im not being uncooperative if the cop was in his rights to pull me over or stop me. I just wont say more than I have to or willingly let him violate my rights.
wm, I have enjoyed you’re responses. I just wanted to say on this one in response to you is that it may not be a bad idea. From what I have found out is that the first time you agree to answer the officer’s question you are now under verbal contract to answer all other questions. Actually, the only thing you should tell the officer, respectfully of course, is, what am I being pulled over for, am I being detained, am I free to go and that is it.
That is untrue. Answering one question does not obligate you to answer others. At any point, you can invoke your right against self-incrimination or to have an attorney present.
There is no such “verbal contract to answer all other questions.”
Like I said, from all the information that I have pulled up, in this type of situation AND what the officers assume is that once you do there is no turning back. There is no reason you can’t just do what you said in the beginning before anything escalates.
I just love it when some asshole with a badge and a gun feels that they can violate your rights!
Buuuut, that’s not what happened here. SCF came with officers. Sounds like they were there as a stand by for SCF.
Probably got a call from social services that some ‘nut’ with a gun was endangering a child and they need law enforcement backup (bigeyeroll).
Once the cops got there Im betting they realized this idiot SW needed to have his ass group kicked for breaking up their donut break.
The problem is that the Officers did not JUST “Stand by” they took control and asked to look at the guns etc.! They did NOT stand there and let the Social Services ask the questions or whatever they are supposed to do.
While I do not condone the actions of the police, this incident should serve as a reminder to everyone regarding the times we are living in. Never, ever post anything online that can end up being used against you.
I see a lot of personal photos on Facebook and other websites of gun owners displaying their guns etc. Just remember you are doing this at your own risk. Do you really want everyone on the Internet knowing you have guns in your home, who has them, and what type they are? Something to think about.
Burglars are now also notorious for using social media as well. Just be aware.
THIS WASN’T THE POLICE. Read the story.
Uh – yes it was. I happened to read the original story which does into far more detail (this isn’t it) written by the homeowner on the day he posted it online, which was about a week ago.
It’s also mentioned in this version.
“One day while he was running errands he got a call from his wife saying that four police offers were at the door along with Child Services. Apparently, someone had called the Child Abuse hotline and reported this guy because of the picture. The police asked to enter the house because they wanted to see all of the guns and to make sure they were registered and locked up.”
I also read the original story. The police were there at the request of the social worker. From what I read, they behaved professionally, the social worker was the trouble maker.
All the stories Ive read dont make me think the cops were out of line either. Sometimes they have to tag along with and idiot to do their jobs. Clearly that social worker was an ass and should be fired.
Alpha is right about the police being there and the story but I have to strongly disagree with him/her on telling everyone to not post pictures like this. Pictures like this are being posted, literally, millions of times public and not to mention the shit tons of Youtube videos so people shooting guns etc. No person on this planet or beyond should be able to tell you what you should or can do with your life, as long as it doesn’t hurt anyone. Power trip asswipe police officers and officials are the ones that need to be removed from their positions and punished by law for doing the illegal acts they do AND they are NOT! THAT is the problem here, not a child holding a gun in a picture. I have a picture of me young with crap ton of guns on me and other weapons. Should I have been searched for that. NO! And I wasn’t!
I never realized how many crazy people live in the USA until all this nonsense regarding gun control came up. People who would be on the first train to Canada if they got a draft notice suddenly can blog about they would kick someones ass. People who worked at a law enforcement agency changing light bulbs and toilet paper become experts on how they would handle an arrest.People who extracted data from magazines at the CIA or checked bagage for TSA or inspected fruit for Dept of Agrtculture suddenly are going to carry on a war against the make believe agressors who are going to take their rights away from them. Only one percent of American familys have an individul who served in the military. However, there were so many individuals parading around in uniforms with phoney medals they had to pass a law making it illegal to do so. I hope all of the tough guy experts don’t ever have to deal with a real situation , or if they do, they have a change of underwear with them.
Actually you are wrong, you can parade around wearing all the medals you want, as long as it has nothing to do with making money. You are also wrong about only one percent of American Families having a family member who has served in the military, where are you getting these scewed numbers from?
Advice from a prominent former prosecutor, defense attorney, and judge: When confronted by police, say nothing, sign nothing, admit to nothing, agree to nothing, consent to nothing.
yup. ANYTHING you say CAN (and WILL) be used against you. NOTHING you say can even be admitted as evidence to exonerate you. Funny how your words to harm are not hearsay, but words from the same source to free you are hearsay. Such are the warped rules of evidence. If you say NOTHING, they are then in the position of having to find out for themselves. THAT is often difficult to impossible. Asking repeatedly “am I free to go now?” “Am I being detained?” “Am I under arrest?” and saying nothing else is a good defense. IF they detain you, they MUST have probable cause. If they don’t have such probable cause, they cannot lawfully detain you. Often they will repeat inane and non-commital things meant to intimidate you. Repeat one of the questins above, They will soon enough realise they;ve got nothing on you, and won’t soon have anything. They will often give up, preferring to spend their time searching out greener pastures. Pun on “green” intended. They are out to maximise revenues generated. Promotions and higher salaries often depend on it.
My wife is a public defender. Her advice agrees with Mr. Hanson’s. Never, ever, ever say “yes” if/when they ask to search your car or home, no matter what their reasoning or explanations may be. Mr. Hanson is correct: If they have probable cause, they won’t bother with asking your permission. Many of her clients have been named as suspects in crimes due to them going along with a police request to search their homes or vehicles. True, some of them are guilty as sin, but there have been many others who are completely innocent and wound up serving time for crimes they didn’t commit… all because they agreed to a search request. REQUEST is the key word here.
Ok, quick question. I live in place where its not uncommon for extremely temperatures. I can’t say in the same breath that I support LEOs (who are human beings) and in turn tell them to wait outside. Can I ask that the officer stay in the fouler and still maintain my rights?
THEY put themselves in the uncomfortable situation the instant they leave the warmth/coolness of their patrol car. They can immediatley leave off their desire to inspect your premises and return to that car. So, leave them the option of standing on your porch and returning to the comfort of their patrol car, most likely left with engine running anyway. I’d rather it be ten degrees outside….. the cold will lessen their level of determination. Let them suffer.
If you give them permission to enter for any reason, you can’t bark out limits after the fact. If you let them in, they will go on a fishing expedition and find something, trust me. They have the option to leave, ask for a search warrant, if they don’t have a warrant, don’t let them in period. You are not freezing them, they can leave at any time. If they choose to stay that is their problem not yours. Trust me, chances are, no good deed goes unpunished. Regardless of what they say, if they are there, it is not for your benefit.
When you let them in they have visual of everything in your house and by that situation anything they see can be determined as illegal until proven otherwise IN A COURT OF LAW!!!! DO NOT open your door all the way either and stand outside when you talk to them!
Good info Jason. Always say no. I’ll remember that.
I was once stopped by police and asked for permission to search my vehicle. I denied the request and was told by the officer that my denial gave him reasonable suspicion because “most people consent”. He found nothing and I was eventually allowed to leave with no apology or even an explanation as to why I was pulled over in the first place. That day I lost my naive idea that the police are always the good guys.
That was not probable cause, if he searched your vehicle on those grounds alone, he violated your rights. You need to look up what probable cause is. Sounds like to me, he meant to search your vehicle weather you like it or not just to go on a fishing expedition. Next time, tell him again,
“I refuse a search of my vehicle, you do not have probable cause, just because I refuse your fishing expedition is not probable cause and you know it. If you violate my rights against unreasonable searches and seizures, you will be sued in a court of law. Do you understand officer?”
Also, the very first thing you should say is: Good Evening officer, why have you pulled me over? Do it in a nice way. I always try and be nice, but if they get overbearing and try and violate my rights, or yell at me, the gloves go off.
The police can try to lie to you…of course it’s against the law to lie to them…Refusal IS NOT probable cause…if they say it is tell them “officer, I have informed you in advance of my right of refusal of search…if you proceed, against my wishes and against the law, you will be outside the bounds of your immunity and I will bring a title 42 lawsuit against you personally for deprivation of my rights along with your department for improper training of its workforce”. More people should be using title 42 lawsuits, but you want to inform the officer in advance or the court will pronounce them immune from prosecution.
AND Try and remember to turn on your camera phone and RECORD, RECORD, RECORD, RECORD. DUDE!! I am right there beside you. I am also from Texas and have now seen the light.
I find that story very disturbing. I had a similar incident when I was stopped by the police. Police were called to a domestic disturbance in my apartment complex. I got home in the midst of it and on my way to my apartment was stopped and they proceeded to tell me they were going to need to search me. I told them there was zero probable cause, considering they were responding to a disturbance in another apartment. I was then told, “I guess you want to do this the hard way.” to which I replied, “Yes, sir, I certainly do.” After a very long time of nasty looks while they ran my license to see if they could find any legal reason to detain, search, or who knows – even arrest me, they came up with nothing and I went into my apartment with a super big smile for Officer Friendly.
Your story upsets me and scares me a bit – you said no and they did anyway. Hmm, you said no and they did anyway – if we didn’t know this was about police searches, that sounds like rape, doesn’t it?
I hate cops like that. It makes every decent, honest officer look bad. Some of them, although they are a minority, actually do want to help people.
this is sad but true. when you get your license, you actually sign paperwork that says you will submit to search and seizure, as well as drug/alcohol testing in all forms (hair, urine, blood even)
Unless you have evidence that you “live in your car” the police have the right to search it with “probable cause” (i.e. denying them allowance to search) as long as you were operating the vehicle. If the vehicle is off, and you’re not driving it, then the police don’t have the right to request access to the vehicle.
THAT is NOT true! If you are a Class A license with CDL then you have to submit to search etc. due to you having a “Professional” drivers license, which I do have, usually because of the rules by the company you work for.
If you have read what everyone has been saying here AND the judges and lawyers and officers that have declined what you are saying how can you sit here and state that what YOU are saying is correct? That is NOT true cause the Constitution also says that you do not have to adhere to any unreasonable search…. and them stating you saying NO is reasonable is wrong! You are stating that it is your constitutional RIGHT to say NO!!!!
Just because you have a CDL DOES NOT mean you have to consent to a search, check with a lawyer. I have a CDL and checked….No I do not have to consent to a search.
Ive never heard anything like this and I read everything I sign…nothing like that Ive seen in Ohio. I just renewed my license not too long ago.
The only time my car has ever been searched I sort of brought it on myself so I allowed it.
I was in a strange little neighborhood and back then our county was plastered on our car tags so people could just look at it and see if you were from halfway across the state.
I think had I parked the car and got out Id have been fine, but I parked and sat in the car for probably 45 minutes. I was tired as hell and reading a roadmap, drinking a coffee Id just bought. I should have just stayed parked at the McDonalds, but I really wasnt thinking at all.
Apparently some folks who lived on the street got really freaked out, not sure what they may have thought I was up to, but they called the cops and 3 cruisers showed up.
All the cops were very professional, they said that they got a call and that it was just suspicious that I pulled up there and was just sitting so long with tags from about 120 miles away or more.
Given the circumstances and how they were behaving I let them search the car.
The only thing they asked was why I had a big ass knife in my glove box. It was a hooked bladed carpet knive, not something people generally carry, but the box was locked so I think it let them see it wasnt for grabbing quickly and using (this all happened before Ohio allowed concealed carry and even telling a cop that you had a knife for self defense would get you arrested for ‘intent’ to use the weapon for harm….go figure as to how defending yourself is considered ill intent).
Anyway, I told him the knife was for work, he said ‘ok’, put it back and they finished pretty quickly.
He told me that sitting like I had down in a little town where everyone knows everyone may not be the best idea….to park over at a restaurant or at the local park itself instead would be a better idea so no one felt the need to call again.
I told him Id do that next time and they left.
The only reason I’d get paranoid about a search nearly 30 years later is not because Ive ever met a cop I didnt like but because of the crazy **** I see on youtube. Some cops are nuts and I believe would plant something in your car these days. Some of them are as bad as any felon on the streets.
My wife and I are going to be traveling in our RV cross country. I will only be crossing states that my permit is good in. My question is, If I am stopped for any reason and the police want to come into my RV even with the excuse they like it and want to look around can and should I say no?
You absolutely should say no!
say no. That is your home, even though it is also a vehicle. They MUST have probable cause that a crime is or will be committed. Puling you over for speeding, following too close, defective taillamp, is NOT probable cause for anything other than the instant issue for the contact. Stand your ground, firmly but politely.
You can be respectful but firm but like they said, the answer is always “No”. “Officer, I respectfully deny your request to search my RV”, “Am I being detained?” “Thank you”
many questions—if the police were alowed in and the guns were not safely stored etc. is this a violation in new jersey or any other state for that matter perhaps a less than responsible behavior but illegal—i thing not . as i read and re-read this it seems to me a set up by the police and child protective services. we all have to smarten up get some legal information and don’t be intimated. i’m a marine combat vet vietnam era i don’t break laws knowingly. this incident was a set up plain and simple—-good luck and stay aware
“When I was a police officer, I was amazed at the people who would allow me to search their car and ..etc…”
Cripes, Jason, whose side are you on anyway?
He’s a Police Officer and a CIA agent! I think his name is really Archer!!!!
Thanks for this post and thanks to those who left replies. I also am a former LEO with many years of experience. I agree with this post completely in regards of “never ever say yes” to any kind of search by the police or any government official. I’d like to add that my stats were about the same mentioned here “If I had to guess, 90% of people I asked said ‘yes’ and only 10% of people ever turned me down.”
The difference in my opinion is not so much that it’s intimidating ….. I believe that the criminals think if they say “yes” to the request of the officer that they believe the officer won’t look. I utilized a lot of in “plain site” observations to get to search. It’s disheartening sometimes to think that innocent law abiding citizens are sometimes targeted just because they own guns and/or believe in personal defense.
Since the new marching orders from The One and the Reich are to criminalize as many law-abiding gun owners as possible in as short a time as possible, letting the police in can – and probably will – cost you a hell of a lot more than just your gun collection. As any number of military veterans and preppers are discovering, in The New ObamAmerikka, you can be declared “mentally incompetent”, totally stripped of your Second Amendment rights, and involuntarily committed at the drop of a hat, ANY hat, at any time, for any reason or no reason at all.
YEP!! this is actually true! And you will be committed by a physician, NOT A Psychiatrist.
Remember not all that long ago the vet marine they took out of his house and no one saw for a week? yup Ann you are correct and as I recall after that there were many reports from people that had the same thing happen to them….
I was the 1st person in the US to sue a Child Protective Service for false accusation – and win. What CPS does to obtain children and useable ‘evidence’ for prosecution is literally unbelievable. .. and they have been doing it since the early 80’s. The cops are usually patsies, manipulated by CPS – but many young officers believe that they are ‘saving kids!’ and don’t know the law, go along and do as the CPS workers tell them – or look for anything, ANYthing – to help in prosecuting the accused. (It’s all about the bureaucratic dollar – the more convictions, the higher they can demand for their budget.)
I and my attorney helped over 150 families in the span of a few years; we got several CPS workers fired, a Family Court judge defrocked, and the State legislature fired the head of CPS when they did an investigation – all spurred by our suit. Now this is all happening again, on steroids, and with all of the new (and confusing) federal, state, and local laws, EVERYone is a criminal – or can easily be found to be. Always have an attorney within a phone’s reach away, and never EVER allow a search without a warrant. Not all cops are bad – but some are; not all CPS agents are evil – but we found that over 83% had a “Saviour complex” and truly believed that all was fair in their job, even if it met the legal definition of illegal search, seizure, or invasion of their victim’s rights. Remember folks – it’s ultimately all about the money! Theirs, not yours.
The only thing I would correct you on this is that MOST police are bad or corrupt in some way or another! I know a ton of them and I have been out on runs with them before and the shit they do is beyond imagining! I had one that pulled a nice looking lady out of her car just so I could see her body, and he was a good friend of mine. I didn’t realize till later the depth the corruption goes and why they do what they do!
Thanks for your information!
I have been a law enforcement officer for much of my adult life. I think thats a little overboard with “MOST police are bad or corrupt in some way or another”. I have seen the situation you described happen before as well. This does not throw everyone into the MOST category. I hate when there is a generalization like that. If you have had something truly bad happen to you as a result of a cop before…i apologize, but shouldnt throw everyone with a badge under that same bus.
Greg, I do appreciate your constructive response and have to say that I did say “Most” and not “All”. Hopefully you are one of the VERY FEW that are NOT corrupt. But let me ask you and I would hope that you would answer this honestly. Do you go to restaurants and expect to get a discount on your food? If they do make you pay regular price do you go back there or do you find somewhere else to eat that will give you discount? Do you wear your uniform “Off Duty” just to get discounts at places you shop? Do you have an apartment OR home that gives you a discount for being a police officer? Do you turn on your lights/sirens to get through traffic faster without an emergency? Those are just the minor things that I KNOW officers do do or demand of civilian businesses etc. The list goes on Greg and I do know that officers, a lot of them are and were very close friends, do do some or all of these. I had a girlfriend that was a Sheriff and was only a Bailiff and hardly did anything all day long got at least 15% off her lunch and dinner every day!
Greg, I do hope you are one of the few that doesn’t do this and just does the job he signed up for and doesn’t expect handouts for doing that job, except for the verbal gratitude of “Thank You Very Much”! I hope you are!
When i eat, i go out of town so i dont get “special ingredients” on people who put a blanket generalization on police officers. I do not wear my uniform off duty, as a matter of fact… I tell most people im a “city employee”. I do not even relate my actual profession. My family actually live outside of the city i work in. I did not wish my kids to be harrassed at school nor did i want my wife to have to endure hushed insults of someone or an aquaintence i may have had to deal with……nobody steps into those shoes and thinks of those things from the other side. If those things you mentioned are benefits, and i did partake….they still wouldnt not come close to offsetting the negatives. Do i turn on my lights and sirens to get places faster? yes….to emergency calls…their intended use. Im far from perfect, but i dont know anyone that is. With that being said, why would i do this if i think it has many bad points you may ask? Because i dont like seeing bad things happen to good people. There are 2 cops… ones that like wearing a badge and ones that like doing the job thats goes along with it.
You say “they still wouldnt not come close to offsetting the negatives” Explain to me what you mean by that before I assume what you are saying. 😀
Offsetting the negatives~ Not living in the same town i work in (40 min away) which means i do not have a take home car as well, although i know several county road workers who live as far out as me and had a take home truck. The pay… is crap, the truth is you will really never have a comfortable living in law enforcement. My kids were bullied at the school in the town i worked as a result of their dad taking other kid’s dad to jail on DUI or domestic abuse charges. This usually results from said parents telling their kids it was the officer’s fault for taking them to jail…. nevermind that they were too hammered to walk( i dont ever recall holding anyone down to make them drink a bottle of Jack) or they punched mommy so hard she had a concussion. It really is hard to trust anyone as well, I am always leary that have some sort of alterior motive for befriending me. Do cops abuse power? absolutely, the same way principals, mayors, congressman, corporation executives do.. …. … Heres the way i look at it, im certain i could take care of my family if there were no law enforcement around. Most people tend to avoid conflict. I like to think i try to stand up for people who have a hard time standing up for themselves.
You say your kids are bullied cause of you being a police officer. You really think they wouldn’t be bullied for something else if you weren’t? Have you thought about the “Bullies” that do NOT mess with your kids because they know that you are a police officer? Probably not cause as I have seen you and most other Police only see the negative and only feed on the negative to make your actions viable for whatever it is that you do. Kids are going to be bullied for one reason or another but you choose to use that as an excuse for why you have the right to be a bully Police yourself to civilians.
So now you have agreed that officers abuse their power, the same as “…principals, mayors, congressman, corporation executives do…” so now you are the same as them! And you sound proud of it AND you sound like you have a right to because they do!
You have admitted and proven that you ARE as bad as every person that has power and abuses it AND you sit and wonder why civilians treat you the way you have described being treated. Now you know why!
I actually just put several counter points to the contrary on abuse of power. You seem intent on starting an argument rather than having a civil conversation. At this point(maybe several points before…), I doubt the intent you had was for a cordial debate and leaning more towards trolling. Good job, I fell for it. What is that you do for a living Wizdom? By the way, im using my real name and photo… I have nothing to hide, what about you?
If law enforcement is so bad… maybe we should do away with them no? Would that make you happy? Im sure all the crime would go away right? Do you think everyone would be better off? Usually the people shouting and complaining the loudest are the same ones screaming for help asking the same group they were complaining about..
I would have to agree with ol’ Wizdom. Power corrupts. There may be some that resist, but the mass of men given an inch of power will waltz over the American people. Not rocket science…
LOL!! Thanks “Jazon”! You are absolutely right! Problem is that the very people that are corrupt don’t see it even when it is put right in front of their face because they live it everyday as if it is normal.
‘Most’, my friend, is bullshit.
Ive met a hundred cops personally and only TWO of them werent professional and even they were just lazy as hell.
My “Most” is counting the minor corruption as well. As I have stated in other of my posts I have had over a couple o dozen police friends from DPS to city to institution (hospitals, colleges) officers (TClose Certified) and not one of them did not expect handouts from places where they went to eat and even to live. I could go on a looooooonnngg diatribe about why but not necessary. On top of it all I have been arrested many times, nothing major by no means, just inspection, speeding and tags tickets. All of this experience is where I draw my conclusions sir. I have met several hundred officers and yes they are nice most of the time as you talk to them but that doesn’t tell you who they are when on duty or through out their life. Big difference “meeting” and “knowing”.
If we play the game this way ‘most’ concealed carriers arent ‘law abiding’ since a huge percentage of them speed, litter and dont wear a seat belt. They obey the laws they have to just enough to keep from losing their license to carry.
I think you are confused. Getting a ticket or breaking the law doesn’t make you lose your conceal carry permit, a felony does! Those are not felonies. AND, You are right, we all break the laws and have to pay for that unless you are a police officer or someone in power that has the money to fight it in court or the influence to get it dismissed! I think you might need to visit the real world for a bit to really understand!
Now your real reason fir the dislike of law enforcement comes out. I can’t think of anyone who has been arrested who has anything nice to say about officers. Also, I now have to doubt your claim of ride alongs because I know at least in our jurisdiction, if you have earned the privilege of sitting in the back seat there is no way you would get the honor of being in the front seat. If what you are saying is true about your many, many LEO friends, which I highly doubt, but if it is than maybe you have yourself a corrupt department… or maybe you watch to much television.
Honestly, with things Ive seen Im FAR more suspicious of Social Service workers than cops.
My one aunt hates my mom and when we were kids that ****** would call social services every other month just to try to cause us trouble. They never found anything but that didnt mean that they didnt try a few times.
I think my aunt just got tired after a while and gave up.
I would NEVER want a social workers job. THEY are under paid, over worked AND completely and totally out numbered. It is probably policy to call police before they go to someones residence! Common Sense is apparently NOT common!
“That’s the entire point of the police uniform and the police car with flashing lights – to intimidate you.” Jason, are you sure you know anything of which you speak? I can’t claim CIA credentials, but then again, I know who my parents are…
I was a police officer. The idea behind wearing a uniform is so that people can readily identify you and don’t think that you are just some armed thug. It visually demonstrates that you represent a governmental law enforcement agency. That is why that question about your attire comes up in court. As for the flashing lights, they are to alert others to your presence. It allows other motorist to see that there is some action being taken by police officers on or near a roadway, which the motorist need to avoid. It is for motorist safety. It also lets the motorist know that there is a police officer that wishes to speak with them and is a sign universally understood to mean, “please, safely steer your vehicle to the side of the roadway so that we may speak to one another”. It may also indicate that the officer is en route to an emergency and wants to pass through an intersection of wants the traffic to clear a path for them to respond more quickly to that emergency.
I hope your firearms instruction is more effective and intelligent than the information that you have shared here. I was a handgun and shotgun instructor, too, while on a SWAT team.
Like I said up above to another ex-officer that said basically the same thing as you, just because that is what your lights etc. are for doesn’t mean that is what you use them for. Officers DO use them for intimidation and the DO use them to get to the donut shop or where ever they are going faster with OUT an emergency happening!!! SO YOU are the one that needs to get HIS facts straight! YOU are probably one of the ASSES that did it with a grin on your face!
It is possible to carry on an intelligent converstation without resulting to playground name calling. “Officers Do use them for intimidation and the DO use them to get to the doughnut shot or wherever they are going faster without an emergency happening”~ Wizdom833 It really sounds like you have a very sad police department and a skewed understanding of what this equipment and procedure is intended for. Its pretty possible to keep this civil.
Actually, a couple of my good officer friends own a donut shop. If you think that me stating “Donut Shop” and “Officer” in the same sentence is non-civil then you probably are one of those officers that jumps down a civilians throat for nothing!
BTW, I don’t think you understand what respect is cause not once in any of my responses have I called Police Officers “Cop”. If you understand why that is respectful then you will understand what I am saying.
Actually, as far as respect goes…i wasnt talking about just you. If someone makes a dig at another person, a retort is usually coming.” I hope your firearms instruction is more effective and intelligent than the information that you have shared here”~sarge “YOU are probably one of the ASSES that did it with a grin on your face!”~wizdom833
No, i usually do not “jump down a civilian’s throat for nothing” but i do not believe in taking abuse or punishment from anyone as well. Most calls i would respond to started with “what are you doing here *&&T(&(^^^*()^^())&^^, this doesnt involve you” followed by ” all you f’n *^$#@!#%* cops are the same ” usually all this happened before i opened my mouth. I never understood why most officers had a bad attitude until 6 months into that job. The fact is when you only deal with the jerks in society day in and day out, its hard to believe there are actually decent people out there. It was hard for me to not look twice at someone when receiving a compliment as well without thinking they had an angle of some sort. I truly believe if anyone has a huge problem with LEO’s they should walk a mile in their shoes. Its really not hard to sign up for a reserve program.
But that is your job Greg. That is what you are supposed to do, bring order to chaos. What did you think your job was for? An officer goes to chaos to bring order so when you go there that is what is going to happen.
You keep telling me to sign up for a reserve program, why? Why would I sign up for something I KNOW I do not want to have to deal with. You act like I do not know what you go through or that I have not been there. I have been in positions of authority on many occasions and what I do right now, I HAVE to take care of problems. My entire career is dealing and fixing problems and dealing with customers face to face. But I do it cause I know the good I get out of it when I fix the problem and that is what I focus on. If i couldn’t handle it anymore I would do something else cause I wouldn’t do a job that I am supposed to do if I can’t do it right and do it well!
“You keep telling me to sign up for a reserve program, why? Why would I sign up for something I KNOW I do not want to have to deal with.”~Wizdom833 That last sentence is more than I could have ever said myself. Most people don’t do it because its easier to avert your eyes and let someone else deal with it. I keep telling you to sign up because its the same thing I tell every other person with complaint that they think legitimize belittling other professions or people. If its so easy…try it. If you can do it better…then do it. The fact is, its a different type of “customer service”.
Actually, his facts ARE straight. His comment was in reply to the assertion that intimidation was the primary purpose of the uniform and lights. He never said they couldn’t be sued for intimidation, but that they were intended for anther purpose. Again, you’re being needlessly aggressive and belligerent. You’re exactly the kind of person we don’t need as an officer – your inability to handle simple disagreements makes you a prime candidate to implement the sort of abuse you claim to rail against.
Me? I am not an officer and never said I was. I am handling the disagreements just fine. You have come into a discussion after I have spent many hours defending myself against people like you that doesn’t understand cause you haven’t seen it from both sides. Police see it from one side cause they are Police whether they have a uniform on or not, they always have the badge. Haven’t you ever wondered why the police are so hated now a days, more so than back in my day? I don’t mean disliked, I mean unadulterated Hate! There is a reason and maybe if you got on YouTube and went to jail you would see and understand! AND, it doesn’t stop there, the judges are just as bad AND even worse than the police! I am just saying I have a wider view than most and am defending that!
Nobody said you were an officer. I just said that your attitude (accurately reflected in your reply) is endemic of the type of personality that shouldn’t be on the force. It’s that sort of “I’ll take it personally because I can” attitude that leads to abuse of police power.
I am around dozens of people every week, from all walks of life, and I literally know nobody who hates the police. I know some who don’t trust them, and quite a few who view them unfavorably, but none who hate them. If you know a lot of people who hate police, you either hang around people who live a lifestyle that creates too many run-ins, or you live in an area where the police are tremendously abusive.
I’ve never been in jail, because I have managed to keep my life at a level that never brought me close to that. I don’t commit crimes, I manage to de-escalate potentially violent situations (even though I would be most likely to come out on top), and I handle other people respectfully enough that my only enemies are those whose situation would make them extremely unlikely to call the police to make false charges (for fear they’d be found out and would do actual prison time).
Something about your situation (and it may simply be where you live, because I don’t know you) has exposed you to a side of life I’ve studiously avoided.
Well, I already wrote a message and then was told to sign in using Facebook, which I did, and then my message disappeared. This is the abbreviated version: Thanks.
DIDN’T THE JEWS GO THROUGH THIS IN THE HITLER ERA ???? YEAH,,, WE’LL JUST INTO HIS HOUSE AND CHECK OUT THE ARSENAL… THIS GOV’T IS GETTING TOO BIG FOR IT’S BRITCHES…..
Let me ask this. About 8. years ago my wife and I were traveling in an RV and also towing my bike trailer. We came up to the Hoover Dam and before we were allowed to cross they said they had to enter the RV and have me open the bike trailer for inspection. Which I did. But now I wonder if I should not have allowed it.
As a former police officer I entirely disagree with your idea that the uniform and marked police car with lights are specifically to intimidate people. Police need to be able to readily identify themselves to the public. This is both a safety thing for civilians, but also can be a safety issue for police. Too many people pretend to be cops today.
Like Jason!
You may be right but if you remember nuclear power was meant to give us great energy and ended up being used as a weapon. Police use what they have to intimidate innocent civilians and that is what is the problem!
“Police use what they have to intimidate innocent civilians and tht is what is the problem!” ……. Seriously? Here is the truth… the percentage of jerks and liars and corruption is in proportion to every other job out there.
Firefighters as a whole don’t! You don’t see them doing the things that police officers do. Go to YouTube Greg and look at the sorry ass officers that do unspeakable things without or with very little punishment! You are on the side of the fence that does these things. Let me know when you get on my side without a badge to flash at the officer when you get pulled over in your civilian car for speeding.
I dont carry my badge with me lol. I have actually never been pulled over for anything truthfully. Maybe that makes me boring…i dunno. You can find a slew of youtube videos on any number of idiots in any profession. Wizdom… if it really is that bad where you live… volunteer to be a reserve and try to right some of the wrongs….. im not trying to pick on you, i just hate someone speaking a problem without also offering a solution.
I am working on righting those wrongs now. I have volunteered. I was training to be an officer back in the day and have had, literally several dozen good friends that were officers. You say that I should offer a solution but when any civilian tries we are met with “Obstruction of Justice” or something to that degree. ME Being on here and responding to all of these AND talking to you is also a way I am offering or working towards solutions. But you say that you have been in places where officers were too afraid to make arrests, why are you not there anymore helping them learn to balance out the justice? Solutions are always given but it is easier to slap away the suggestions when you have power than it is to force anyone to listen.
“But you say that you have been in places where officers were too afraid to make arrests, why are you not there anymore helping them learn to balance out the justice”~ wizdom833
Because when a majority mob mentality forms and snowballs, sometimes there is little you can do. Lets say that fear runs all the way to a DA office. What happens when you turn in reports only to be met with a “lets let it slide” mentality. That rot has then truly hit the core. If life was a movie script, one person could make a huge difference…but reality is not that simple. How many people you know that were in the wrong in a legal situation( being arrested for something that was actually their fault) but they blame the officers or everyone around except taking responsibility for their own actions? When those people are the majority, its difficult to overcome. Sadly, that is becoming the norm in most areas.
Well, then you have just described what civilians go through every day everywhere. Civilians have no power, no guns, no badge, no legal authority. All civilians have is their mouth. If a civilians mouth hurts you more than an officer beating or tazing a person unconscious than you have a problem. What you are not understanding is that you are the authority in the area and that is the way you are going to be treated in a situation where you have to be the authority. You are the one there to bring balance to unbalance. The civilians there causing the problems are the ones that are causing the unbalance which will always be negative. If an authority figure can not handle this then they need to get out! Period!
You make it sound so simple. But people like you screaming “its all the cops faults and they are all the same” seem to be the only ones heard. You make it difficult for all the officers trying to do the right thing. Words are more powerful than any firearm or use of force out there. Words bring lawsuits, words bring rumors, words bring slander…Yes, words hurt more than any other weapon. You have heard the pen is mightier than the sword right? Pretty much the same thing.
You are being purposely confrontational. Greg has posted nothing but his experience (versus your citation of others’ experiences and vague references to “this side” of the fence).
I am a civilian, and always have been. I’ve never been a cop, though I’ve known quite a few. My experience is in line with Greg’s comment: there are about as many jerks and idiots on the force as in any other profession – perhaps a bit more, because the power-hungry are drawn more to that type of work than to, say, teaching.
The real issue is that abuses by police officers are more easily recognized, because their power is so easily available for abuse. Firefighters (referencing an above comment) probably do abuse what power they have to a similar degree, but seriously, what abuses are available to them? There simply aren’t as many options for them.
I take issue with the comments (early in this page) that officers accepting discounts are corrupt. Those discounts are intended to get more cops into those shops, which provides passive protection for that shop owner. Cops gotta eat somewhere, and eating at those places saves them a few cents (of their underpaid wages). I have no issue with it. And of course they sometimes choose to go where there’s a discount. As a consumer, I do this all the time, too.
There are plenty of bad cops out there, but they – in my experience – are a minority. Yes, there are cops who don’t quite understand the impact their actions have. Some believe too much in their mission (stopping crime), and are willing to overlook the rules. Most of us (in all walks of life) overlook rules along the way. In the case of the police, it’s hypocritical, but still not beyond comprehension.
Gerry, I do appreciate your response. I am not purposely trying to be confrontational at all, just stating facts. Facts are facts. You say that I have given “vague references”. I am not sure what specific references that I am being “vague” on but all I can tell you is that from my experience with the dozens of officer friends I have had and my own specific run in with officers I am sure my side of the fence references out number your references!
Furthermore, Your response to the officers going to shops with discounts. Yes, you are right, that is the very reason the shops give discounts to officers to get them to come in to deter crime. So, what about the other shops in the area that don’t give discounts, now they are not allowed that luxury. A LOT of shops are discounted already, especially now a days, just to keep people, general public, coming in. Why should they discount anymore to get protection/crime determent when they pay taxes just like joe schmo down the street. So, now the officers are at location 1, location 2 is open to crime cause they don’t pay the officers to be there. Civilians look for discounts on regular priced items not specially marked down items for special customers, there is a difference!
I am sorry that you take issue on my comments but that is the joy of today’s America, the ability to piss off people verbally for just speaking your mind.
Thank you for your reasoned response. This allows us to debate the issue with some..er..wisdom.
Actually, consumers do precisely what you say they do not. Nearly every chain store (and many locals) now has a program that offers discounts to those who sign up (some paying a fee for the privilege, as with some book stores). The same happens with airlines and hotels. The exclusivity (not everyone can get the deals) is a major draw. This is basic marketing.
As for the other stores not getting the same level of protection, it’s not that they’re being deprived of basic service. The police have to eat somewhere (and most forces, as I understand, have a policy that keeps them from eating in one place en masse) – those discounts are simply that restaurant’s way of getting a better chance at that. It’s also a way for the restaurants (like the ice cream shop I worked at in high school, where we didn’t need the police there, EVER) to show their appreciation for those folks who take on a dangerous and stressful job for a poor level of pay. Accepting those discounts is not dishonest or corrupt. If they actually refused to drive past and check on those places that didn’t offer a discount, that would be different, but we’re just talking about where they’ll eat and such.
This is no different, to me, than those places that offer discounts to senior citizens, active duty military, or students.
In 1993 my son who was a senior in High School Arrested for something he did NOT do! He was 18 and the rest of the kids he was with were students at his school. While his Mom was at bingo he was hanging out with these boys and one of them damaged a car in the parking lot. My son did NOT see who damage the car nor did he know about it until he was arrested a few weeks later at SCHOOL!!!!!!!! At the jail as a honest TAX-PAYING citizen I made a BIG mistake and told him to answer the Deputy’s as to what he knew about the incident. He did and they proceeded to BOOK him because he was 18!!! NO MORE MISTER NICE GUY!!!
DAMN! I had a feeling in the beginning of your story you were going to say that! That sooooo sucks. I feel your pain! He didn’t get a felony though, did he? I wouldn’t think so on that small of a charge but you never know what they will trump up!
No there is no one going to come in through my front door to search my house. There is no reason to let them in so they are not coming in my place with out a fight. I am a Nam Vet so I have been there before.
I don’t remember where I was first taught this but I too was taught that the police will only ask permission to search when they have no probable cause and the the best answer is always a polite but firm NO.
nobody here is concerned about the person who ‘snitched’ them out…DYES will start a case based on hearsay or on complaints from anonymous dickheads, who will point a finger but will not stand tall and identify themselves.
Something that stinks was that in my day we were taught to trust the police, they were there to help us, to protect us.
And then something seriously changed…
One nation under future arrest. American police state is here (almost). Stay dilligent and keep your powder dry.
Wow, Jason, you sure do like to gloss over the details and even add a few of your own just to make things read the way YOU want them to read…… At least now I know why you’re a FORMER C.I.A. officer.
I’ll tell you why so many let the police in without a warrant – because for the last 20 years they have been conditioned to believe that if they have nothing to hide, they have no reason to be afraid of the police coming in for a little check. They haven’t consciously given up their fourth amendment rights, they were conditioned over time to think it has nothing to do with their rights.
Jason also sells real estate.
I’m a retired officer, and what he said is right. If the police have justification to enter and search they would tell you they are entering, and then enter. If they ask, refuse. And even if they enter anyway, thinking they had enough justification to do so, continue notifying them they do not have your permission to search, but be nice about it. Speak calmly, and don’t get into a argument about it. Just say no, and stop. Don’t be obnoxious about it, or continually spout “I know my rights”. Don’t piss them off and give them an incentive to look harder and more creatively at justifying an entry into your house. The sooner they decide to give it up the better, A pissed off cop will look a lot harder and closer for reasons and he just might find one that you didn’t notice, forgot about or know about.
The effectiveness of saying no should last a few more months until the U.N. mercenaries come in to operate the tanks the DHS has kindly purchased for them. When a tank comes into your house, “no” doesn’t mean much.
I have to agree with you on that 🙁
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and brought home more than $8017 parttime from their pc. applie the guidelines
from this address… fab22.comCHECK IT OUT
the thing to remember here is we need to speak up to keep the right just to have a gun ,keep sitting by on the side line and not responding and taking part in the use of this right will cause the loss of this right.
Oregon has a house bill that basically forces gun owner to choose between their 2A and 4A rights. If you choose to keep A gun (yes, this law only allows you to keep (ONE) weapon), you automatically forfeit your 4th Amendment rights and the state gestapo gets to come into your house without a warrant and without notice to ensure that your weapon is “properly secured” (with no definition of what that actually means). From all the research I’ve done, it appears this bill is DOA, but the scary thing is that some asshole, moronic senator actually sponsored the bill to get it into the process in the first place. When questioned about it, he gave the exact same answer that the a-hole in Washington State did when they tried to push the same bill up there. “I didn’t know how invasive it was.” Really? Then what the hell do we pay you for? Why would you sponsor a bill without even reading and understanding it? Personally, I think it is just as excuse to try to not be exposed as a complete poser. But it amazes me that people like this are kept in office…
It remains true that the most likely thing to happen with a firearm in the home is injury to you or one of your loved ones. In fact, it is 43 times as likely a result as you defending your home successfully. As much as all this false braggadocio may flatter your ego, if you want to do the best thing for your family, you will not have a firearm in your home at all. This fear of your neighbors and other citizens denies the bravery you would like to imagine for yourself. It is petty and cowardly.
I wonder how many people on here actually have knowledge or experience in this sort of thing or are just quoting what they read on facebook or got from some friend who watched an episode of Law and Order
Wait- are cops good (blue live matter) or are they bad (theyre takin all our guns)?