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Are You Illegally Carrying Concealed at the Post Office?

October 9, 2012 | by
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Most of us believe we understand concealed carry laws fairly well. After all, we know we cannot carry concealed in a courthouse, we know we cannot carry concealed in an airport, and in the vast majority of states we’re not allowed to carry concealed inside a school.

Are You Illegally Carrying Concealed at the Post Office?

Are You Illegally Carrying Concealed at the Post Office?

But when it comes to the Post Office many people unknowingly violate the law and I’d be willing to bet you’ve done it once or twice or you know someone who has. And guess what? What I’m talking about has nothing to do with carrying concealed INSIDE the post office.

Most people can agree it’s illegal to carry concealed inside a Post Office.

I say “most,” because there are a good number of people who think it is legal. You see, the United States Code (18 U.S.C. 930) that deals with firearms in federal buildings has a section that says there are certain times you can carry concealed in a federal building… “The lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.”

People argue that “other lawful purposes” means we can carry for personal protection because we have a valid concealed carry permit. From what my lawyer has told me and from all of the research I have done this is NOT true.

In fact, the Code of Federal Regulations – Title 39 – which is named “Conduct on Postal Property” says “No person while on postal property may carry firearms, other dangerous or deadly weapons, or explosives, either openly or concealed, or store the same on postal property, except for official purposes.”

So hopefully you understand that you cannot carry concealed inside the Post Office…

But that’s not my main concern and not why I wrote this today. The reason I wrote this and the big mistake people make is that you’re not even allowed to have your gun on Post Office Property. In other words, when you pull into the parking lot and toss your gun into the glove compartment while you go mail a letter, you are breaking the law.

I realize that may sound “dumb” and hard to believe, but the above Title 39 paragraph clearly states “on postal property, except for official purposes.” Now, I had a student who told me that a friend of theirs got arrested in the Post Office parking lot when a police officer watched him put his gun in his glove box…

But the biggest proof I found is what actually happened to a postal employee. A fellow named Clarence Dorosan used to store his gun in his car while he went to work each day. Somehow, one of this supervisors found out he had a gun in his car and he was arrested and fired for having a gun on the property. I’ve added appellate ruling where the judges upheld his original conviction below this article.

So since you cannot even carry onto the Post Office parking lot, what should you do? Obviously, one option is to leave your gun at home if you know you’ve got to stop by the Post Office. But where I live there is a restaurant next to the Post Office so I always park in the restaurant parking lot and stash my gun in the glove box and then walk over when I need to send a package or mail a letter. Yes, it’s nonsense, but unfortunately, many laws are.

Clarence Dorosan Appellate Ruling

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  • Doug

    We have street parking in front of ours, and technically I think all of our post office parking is street. However we do have a small corner where there is a drive through of sorts to drop off to 1 of 2 mail boxes, it cuts out of the PO lot, I would assume if someone pushed it, this would be off limits too, although there is NO way someone could actually see you were armed, they would have to know ahead of time, or guess, and wouldn’t that be an illegal search if they stopped you for a “guess” or knew you had a permit? We have another issue in our area, as to schools. I know this has been discussed, but carrying on any school property has the same issues, but I believe you can do drop off’s and pick up’s without issue, but still iffy at best.

    • ezkl2230

      The Gun Free School Zones Act (GFSZA) contains an exemption for those possessing concealed pistol licenses (CPL) issued by states that mandate background checks as part of their licensing process. In those states, if STATE law permits you to carry on school property, you can legally do so; several states still prohibit CC in so-called pistol-free zones. This was verified in Michigan earlier this year when a young man decided to OC in his polling place – which happened to be on school property. Michigan has a screwed up law, and we are trying to change it. Schools are pistol free zones for CC in Michigan. If you possess a CPL, you can OC in a pistol free zone – but not CC (like I said, it’s screwed up). Schools are public, not private, property, so they cannot ask you to leave your firearm secured in your vehicle. The school where the polling took place wanted to press charges, but it was ascertained that under both the GFSZA and Michigan law, what he did was absolutely legal, since Michigan requires background checks as part of the CPL application process. So under the GFSZA, if you live in a state that requires background checks in order to receive your CPL, and your state laws do not prohibit carry in a school zone, you can legally do so – not just in your vehicle as you pick up and drop off your children, but actually into the school itself.

      • cawpin

        Are you sure that exception applies specifically to “states that require background checks”? That would be very strange, and redundant, wording as all states that offer permits have background checks for them.

        • ezkl2230

          The GFSZA states,
          “(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm –(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, AND THE LAW OF THE STATE OR POLITICAL SUBDIVISION REQUIRES THAT, BEFORE AN INDIVIDUAL OBTAINS SUCH A LICENSE, THE LAW ENFORCEMENT AUTHORITIES OF THE STATE OR POLITICAL SUBDIVISION VERIFY THAT THE INDIVIDUAL IS QUALIFIED UNDER LAW TO RECEIVE THE LICENSE.”

          Vermont does not require background checks as part of the CPL application process, and there are some states that don’t require CPLs in the first place in order to carry (remember Arizona?). In those states, carrying a firearm on school property (other than in one’s vehicle while picking up or dropping off their children, unless that is specifically prohibited by state law) would be a violation of the GFSZA even if allowed by state law because they don’t conduct the background checks or issue licenses to carry. As I said in my earlier post, we went through this in Michigan earlier this year, and the interpretation I gave above was verified. According to Michigan law, then, since it allows unrestricted open carry of firearms for those possessing a CPL and requires background checks as a condition of receiving a CPL, I can carry a clearly holstered firearm into a school, and there is nothing they can do about it; I cannot, however, carry a concealed firearm into the same school building at this time without violating the GFSZA and applicable State laws as well.

          • cawpin

            You need to read, and pay attention to, what you read. We are talking about states that issue carry permits only, not states that allow carry without a permit.

            First, Vermont doesn’t even have a CPL licence, no permit is required at all.

            Second, I live in Arizona, and while no permit is REQUIRED to carry they are still issued to maintain reciprocity with other states.

  • Dan

    When I worked at the USPS in the 1990’s, those of us with concealed carry license’s were obligated to (obviously) leave our firearms in our vehicles. In addition, we had to park in public parking on the street

  • phideaux

    If you’re carrying concealed and someone figures it out, you’re doing it wrong.

    • FireFighterChen

      Why even get a permit in that case?

      • JTPhilly

        You don’t get a permit as a political statement or to show your friends. The whole point of carrying concealed is the CONCEALED part.

      • Rodney D Young

        In case you have to use it. I’d rather not get a firearms possession charge after defending my life.

        • Brad Walters

          So you’d rather be dead?

          • Barry Hirsh

            Game. Set. Match.

          • UrWrongDude

            No he got a permit…

          • falcon

            No, fool, he’s saying he’s saying being alive and NOT getting a felony charge for illegal carrying of a handgun is better than being alive and getting a felony charge. SMH at some people’s reasoning skills and reading comprehension.

      • Bryan

        Because his statement was inaccurate. I’ll fix it:

        “If you’re carrying concealed and someone figures it out [before you have to pull it on them], you’re doing it wrong.”

        There will be a point where someone figures it out (when it’s pointed at them). At that point you’d better have a permit, or else you may be committing a felony, and doing anything while committing a felony negates a self defense argument.

        • cawpin

          “and doing anything while committing a felony negates a self defense argument.”

          No it doesn’t; there are multiple examples of this over the years. You can’t count on it but it isn’t automatic.

  • 702Shoter

    People still use the Post Office? I’m not sure that I’ve even seen a post office in the last 4 years let along gone into one.

    Interesting information none the less.

  • Einstein

    The post office is not a federal institution. It’s a private company contracted to the government to handle postage.

    • TxPatrick

      That is not true. Where do you live? The U.S. Post Office Is NOT private but part of the Federal Government. USPS Happily Retired 🙂

  • sax13

    All Post Offices are privately owned and leased to the Feds.
    Maybe this will add to the argument and defense since it is not really their property.

  • James

    It seems to me that code 18 and title 39 conflict each other. If you can not even have a gun in your vehicle on their property, then how can you take a rifle or shotgun inside and mail it, which is legal?

    • druid

      Now, THERE’S a Catch-22 for you.

    • donholmes1

      You cannot mail a hand gun buy USPO. Fed -x or UPS will ship.

      • Michael Arnold

        Actually, you can mail a handgun. FFL dealer to FFL dealer, FFl dealer to manufacturer, etc …

        • donholmes1

          What I do know is that I sent a revolver to Taurus for warranty repair and it had to go by U.P.S. or Fed-X The post office would not do it . I sent one in last month and I arranged shipping,andI sent one last week and Taurus sent Fed-X to pick it up.

          • Dave

            The key word in Mr. Arnold’s statement was “FFL Dealer”. As a FFL Holder, I mail handguns through the USPS all the time, because they are the cheapest way of sending handguns. However, you have to have your FFL to do this.

          • donholmes1

            I was totaly wrong about his comment and apollogize to every one.
            sorry for that. Don

          • nagmashdriver

            It is entirely kosher to mail a handgun via USPS. However, each station manager/postmaster can and will impose their personal views on life and therefore they told you it was verboten. Lots of double standards in the USPS; I worked for them for 12 years……

    • Clayton

      The “official purpose” clause is probably what makes that ok. FFL holders are probably authorized, as the license is a federal license. CHL/CCP/CWP ect are state authorized licenses.

  • Iron Goat Guns

    When i have a CHL Class I make a point to explain that you cannot have a firearm anywhere on Postal Property.

    • Fyrewerx

      So what do you say when someone in the class asks where does Postal Property end when the Post Office is in a strip mall? Eg.: There’s a Dollar Store right next door to the Post Office.

    • cawpin

      And that is wrong.

  • Lucky Bi l

    I went into the post office once. I was wearing my cowboy gun on my hip. Greeting me at the door was the chief of police. He said hi and went about his business. I love Wyoming.

    • Paul E

      Many LEO enforce the laws that they choose to enforce. In many states immigration, some drug laws, and so on are only enforced by federal agents. The local judicial departments have directed the local LEO to use discretion, since the prosecutor will not use resources to prosecute selected offenses. Even the President after swearing to uphold laws, chooses which laws he declines to enforce.

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  • Ranger Rick

    So when I’m inside a person goes postal, I should:
    a. run back to my vehicle to get my weapon
    b. drop and cover
    c. remind them that it’s illegal to carry firearms in a Post Office
    Me, I rather be “concealed” and prepared.

    • The correct answer is “C” right? hee hee

    • Albert Gazalooch

      Run to your vehicle and leave! You have no authority to protect anybody in a federal building.

      • cawpin

        You have no RESPONSIBILITY to protect anybody. You can absolutely CHOOSE to protect somebody, regardless of the location.

        • Albert Gazalooch

          Doing the right thing on government property could result in arrest. You DO NOT fetch your weapon then run in and play superhero.

          • cawpin

            I never said to go out and get your gun.

  • fauver52

    ok now the loop holes , it states “except for official purposes.” as long as your
    mailing some thing then it is official business the post office is an official fed. building and any business conducted it official business i mean correct me if i am wrong but you dont go to court of unofficial business do you ??

  • RichL

    I park across the street, and have it stowed, always making the PO my 1st stop. No carry sign clearly posted from the county sheriff’s office. Sucks since I have rented a PO box with no break in service there since 1972. Noticed a non-conforming sign (smaller then what’s required size wise) at the local U.P.S. franchise store, they do rent mail boxes, but private and not federal property. regardless no desire to butt heads with a prosecuting attorney.

  • zeebea

    My post office says no unathorized weapons. I aM authorized to carry so My permit makes my weapon authorized so it stays on. Legal or not! However…i carry concealed and when I say conceald it is concealed. No one but me knows I have it. On another note, I thought the post office was not government owned . I thought it was just a company delivering mail and failing .maybe I am wrong but that was my understanding.

  • Larry Mitchell

    I know…Heh. Then how do I pick up guns shipped to me? Eh?

  • Lumpie

    I am aware of this and it is one reason I avoid the post office and use UPS and or FedEx whenever possible. At the current rate of demise of this incompetent organization, it probably could debated how long anyone will be able to use the post office.

    • kl7ibv

      The postal service is quickly becoming another Federal creation which is outliving it’s usefulness.

      • Ray Stone

        Actually, it’s Article 1, Section 8, Clause 7 of the US Constitution: To establish Post Offices and post Roads; Usefulness has no bearing on its life

  • If the post office is attached to or part of or somehow shares the parking lot of another facility such as it is in many situations the parking lot rule does not apply.

    • Fyrewerx

      Exactly. Many of the Post Offices in Florida are in strip malls. Therefore, I’m allowed to carry if I go into the Dollar Store “next” to the Post Office. Where does “Post Office” property end, and all the other stores’ property begin? Must be why I carry into the Post Office regardless.

    • FybrOptx

      Do you have a reference to back this up?

  • Well, that will just about take care of the issue of whether “Going Postal” can still occur.

  • motor

    We have some very good fire arms instructors in my county and they cover the “into”, and “onto” restrictions very well. The PO was an example of having restrictions on both that they covered.

  • Brian Knoblauch

    While I like the USPS more than UPS/FedEx, this reason alone is enough to try not to ever use them and to take our business elsewhere.

  • hdeddie59

    By law any law or regulation that conflicts with the Constitution the Constitution will always prevail, so doesn’t this violate your Constitutional Second Amendment rights?? Also has anyone considered that by having or getting a CCP you are giving the government and the anti-gun zealots a direct road map to you if it comes to them attempting mass firearm confiscation??

    • bobfairlane

      But is that a bet you want to make? If you get pulled over for a routine stop or get in some altercation even that doesn’t end in gunfire, and the cops search you and run your numbers, you could get thrown in the can under some heavy charges.

  • marky

    I too have carried in post office and was not aware that it was illegal.why dont they put it on your permit card like all other places on it.

    • Sam

      It carrier to know what is legal and not legal. The state or municipality does not have an obligation to tell you where it’s illegal to carry when it comes to federal law. Generally speaking, the state’s concealed carry law will state something similar not to carry “Federal property where prohibited.”

    • cawpin

      It isn’t illegal.

  • Sam

    Although I agree with the information provided, not to be confused with my personal belief, if you continue reading 18 U.S.C. 930 it also states:

    “(h) Notice of the provisions of subsections (a) and (b) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal facility, and notice of subsection (e) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal court facility, and no person shall be convicted of an offense under subsection (a) or (e) with respect to a Federal facility if such notice is not so posted at such facility, unless such person had actual notice of subsection (a) or (e), as the case may be.”
    So, in regards to other federal property that isn’t covered by special laws you cannot be convicted of 18 U.S.C. 930 if a facility does not meet the above requirements. Any good lawyer could have such charges thrown out if the facility is not in compliance with the above requirements.

  • netcynergy

    I was working as a Post Master and Supervisor in Texas when the Concealed law came into effect. We were told not to ask and not to worry about it – just take the customers mail and ship it. This does not apply to postal employees however, No guns allowed in the parking lots or other postal property or on your person while working or visiting. Postal Inspectors have vehicle searches regularly and Postal employees with weapons WILL be fired…

  • Robert Greene

    I’m gonna have to call BS on something here… “I had a student who told me that a friend of theirs got arrested in the Post Office parking lot when a police officer watched him put his gun in his glove box…” Since when do Police Officers enforce Federal Laws? I’ve been hearing all the arguments against the immigration bills as of late and the argument being thrown around is that Local LE CANNOT enforce federal laws. Who was this and how did it occur? Now, that being said, I guess I am going to have to contact our US Reps that passed the storage laws for public schools and get them to open it up for the USPS lots, as well. We’ll see how far this gets. -Robert Greene | Legislative Director / Texans for Concealed Carry-

    • Correct, I had precisely the same reaction: “Bullshit!” No, a cop did not arrest him (or maybe he did and then got in trouble for it) for violating federal law.

    • Cobrawing

      I have to agree as well. That story is as BS as Jason being an ex-CIA Officer/Agent.

    • Pat

      Not sure on the BS, but local officers do enforce federal laws, when the local bowling alley would not pay the bribe money they used the federal laws on bottle stamps and breaking bottles to harass him.. All depends on who’s campaign you paid if you get billion dollar grants for crap technology.

    • David Atherton

      I suppose you’ve never heard of a local LEO arresting someone for murder? Bank robbery? Drug offense? These are all federal laws. Just because you are paid by your local municipality doesn’t mean you only enforce your city ordinances.

      • cawpin

        “Just because you are paid by your local municipality doesn’t mean you only enforce your city ordinances.”

        No, it doesn’t, but in general, they can only arrest people for violations of the laws of whatever state they are in, since that’s the area they are lawfully entitled in. Local and state law enforcement cannot arrest somebody under a federal statute unless they have been specially assigned to do so.

        The 3 examples you gave, murder, bank robbery and drugs, all have state level charges of their own. They are not ONLY federal crimes. You should really know what you’re talking about before trying to correct somebody else.

  • I prefer to avoid the post office entirely. Between UPS, e-mail, and drop boxes when absolutely necessary, I find I can sidestep the issue.

  • Too many contradictory laws one after another. Because the Anti Gun Law Makers have screwed up so many once simple and universally simple yest effective laws. They and made mass confusion the and are hell bent in securing their job description by thinking is yet more laws to muck up an already over regulated system.
    I think the word here in unreasonable. Good for one and not the other. The major problem with our Government.

  • Mike

    However, CFR 232.1 also says “Nothing contained in these rules and regulations shall be construed to abrogate any other Federal laws or regulations of any State and local laws and regulations applicable to any area in which the property is situated.”

    One interpretation of this is that 18.930 says the lawful carrying of firearms is not prohibited, and 232.1 cannot abrogate that. If so, the lawful carrying of firearms (such as with a carry permit) is also legal in a post office.

    NOTE: It would take a lawyer to determine whether this interpretation is valid and I am not a lawyer. I am only pointing out that the above analysis omits this important point.

    • cawpin

      This is exactly what I was going to point out. Carrying in a post office is not illegal under current law.

      Hell, even the case that he has posted in this article from the 5th Circuit Court of Appeals contradicts itself. See the first two paragraphs on page 2.

      In the first it says, “First, the Postal Service owned the parking lot where Dorosan’s handgun was found, and its restrictions on guns stemmed from its constitutional authority as the property owner.”

      Then in the next paragraph it says “place of regular government business, it falls under the “sensitive places”exception recognized byHeller.”

      Now, either it is a private business and can prohibit firearms in accordance with state law in whatever location it is in; or it isn’t a private business and it is a government building and it is the government violating the 2nd Amendment. The front office of a Post Office is no a “sensitive area” like the rear area is.

  • Tionico

    Note well, in Dorosan, the guy parked in the EMPLOYEE parking lot, which is the area where mail and postal vehicles are stored, staged, and used. This IS a sensitive area. Our local PO have gates, passcodes, etc, and the public are NOT allowed into that yard. The court did well in pointing out alternatives… some of which exist at our local PO. At ours, there are “no guns” signs at the gate leading into the “sensitive” area. The main car park is not so marked, nor is the main public entrance to the building itself. Note in 18 USC, wherever guns are not allowed there MUST be posted appropriate signage, following certain patterns, sizes, etc. One could read that without those signs the law cannot be enforced. I KNOW that is Washignton State Law. Note in the airports, coming into the “sterile’ areas where TSA reign supreme, such signes exist, as to at courthouses, jails,copshops, etc. At our PO, the public car park abuts the street, and I cannot imagine the rationale (but hey, this IS government, eh?) that would hold I can walk down the sidewalk carrying, but set one foot onto their tramac I am a felon waiting for an escort to the Crossbar Hotel.

    I hope the PO does go private… then, no longer being a federal agency, 36 USC will no longer apply, local and state laws will, and then we here in Wasnington could carry right up to the customer service counter.

    One other point… both 18 and 36 USC forbid possession of arms on postal property “except for …. and other lawful purposes”, or “official” purposes. Could one make the case that going there to send or pick up mail is “lawful purpose” or “official purpose”? What happens when I actually ship a firearm, as all public can do with long guns, and FFL can with handguns? Would not those “uses’ be “official” or “lawful”? I won’t pushit, or make myself a test case…… but if caught, anyone would do well to try and raise some of these poines as affirmative defenses. Improper signage would be a big technicality…. ours has a tiny sign next the letter drop slot inside. It also has metal detectors erected between the lobby/PO Box secion and the customer counter. One of these times I intend to go through those with about two pounds of bicycle lock chain in my back pocket to see if they are working…….

    • bobfairlane

      I’ve carried all kinds of dense metal objects past the one here, mailing automotive and motorcycle parts, and once with a bag full of coins and magnets. No one seemed to act differently, but I didn’t see any employees for a minute. I didn’t hear any noises, but they probably have those as much for some kind of deterrant as anything, or an option to activate if they want. They might have an inaudible alarm, also.

  • Fla-Tex

    Our CC instructor, a local police officer, said Post Offices are no longer fed property so it is now legal. Comments?

  • cojo

    Begs the question of what is postal property in spaces that they rent.
    My local P.O. rents space in a strip-type mall.

    • ezkl2230

      Any property owned or under the control of the postal service is covered by the “sensitive areas” designation. If they own it or rent/lease it, you can’t carry or store on it.

  • It’s not against the law to carry in an airport, it’s only against the law beyond the security checkpoint. As for courthouses, you can carry in the front lobby, just not beyond the checkpoint. Post Office, the best answer, Write to all your Representatives including the President. Tell them you want the ban on firearms repealed at the USPS, not only in the parking lot, but inside the building as well. There is no logical reason for citizens to be at the mercy of criminals while mailing packages or letters, and certainly not while doing so from their vehicle in a parking lot outside the building.

    • Paul E

      I read a hillarious excuse for the post office ban. Paraphrased: Federal OSHA laws require that the employer provide a safe work environment. The counter workers feel safer knowing that the patrons are unarmed. How could postal administration management violate Federal OSHA laws by permitting firearms?

      This excuse was followed by a comment. “Why can the legislators write laws that conflict with the Bill of Rights?”

    • donholmes1

      I have never herd of a ccw permitt holder shoot anyone while doing every day PO business. It’s always a postal employee shooting another postal employee.

    • mmcglone

      You actual believe our anti-gun president will help you on this??

  • In the “For-What-it-is-Worth” Department: In Louisiana your vehicle is an extention of your home. It is legal to have your weapon inside your car except in specific areas. The following is the current Louisiana Law:

    LOUISIANA REVISED
    STATUTES

    TITLE 32. MOTOR VEHICLES AND TRAFFIC REGULATION

    CHAPTER 1. LOUISIANA HIGHWAY REGULATORY ACT

    PART 4. TRAFFIC REGULATIONS

    SUBPART L. MISCELLANEOUS PROVISIONS

    *** This document is
    current through the 2011 Regular Session. ***

    *** Annotations are current through April 9, 2012. ***

    GO TO LOUISIANA STATUTES ARCHIVE DIRECTORY

    La.
    R.S. 32:292.1 (2012)

    § 32:292.1.
    Transportation and storage of firearms in privately
    owned motor vehicles

    A. Except as provided in Subsection D of this Section, a person who lawfully
    possesses a firearm may transport or store such firearm in a locked, privately-owned motor vehicle
    in any parking lot, parking garage, or other designated parking area.

    B. No property owner, tenant, public or private employer, or business entity or
    their agent or employee shall be liable in any civil action for damages resulting
    from or arising out of an occurrence involving a firearm
    transported or stored pursuant to this Section, other than for a violation of
    Subsection C of this Section.

    C. No property owner, tenant, public or private employer, or business entity
    shall prohibit any person from transporting or storing a firearm
    pursuant to Subsection A of this Section. However, nothing in this Section
    shall prohibit an employer or business entity from adopting policies specifying
    that firearms stored in locked, privately-owned motor vehicles on property controlled by an employer or business
    entity be hidden from plain view or within a locked case or container within
    the vehicle.

    D. This Section shall not apply to:

    (1) Any property where the possession of firearms is
    prohibited under state or federal law.

    (2) Any vehicle owned or leased by a public or private
    employer or business entity and used by an employee in the course of his
    employment, except for those employees who are required to transport or store a
    firearm in the official discharge of their duties.

    (3) Any vehicle on property controlled by a public or
    private employer or business entity if access is restricted or limited through
    the use of a fence, gate, security station, signage, or other means of
    restricting or limiting general public access onto the parking area, and if one
    of the following conditions applies:

    (a) The employer or business entity provides facilities for the temporary
    storage of unloaded firearms.

    (b) The employer or business entity provides an alternative parking area
    reasonably close to the main parking area in which employees and other persons
    may transport or store firearms in locked,
    privately-owned motor vehicles.

    • ezkl2230

      And properties designated under federal law are among the specific areas to which the Louisiana law does not apply.

  • Jabatam

    I deal with the UPS Store a block away from the nearest post office. I’ll pay a little more but don’t have to worry about the hassle

  • Why deal with the Post Office? It’s antiquated, unnecessary, and pointless. Anti-freedom to boot. Don’t give them your money–use 21st Century technology–that’s what it’s there for. If you MUST send something physically, deal with Fedex, UPS, or some other private provider.

    • I’ve seen posted on the doors at some FedEx Hub offices, Firearms not permitted. Not all of them, but some. I imagine if they see it, they’ll ask you to leave, oblige and there will be no trouble. That is truly the key to staying out of trouble if you carry into places you shouldn’t. Leaving when asked to.

      • Barry Hirsh

        The issue becomes moot if they never know you are carrying. AS IF anyone has the legitimate power to deprive you of that right, huh.

    • cawpin

      Actually, flat rate shipping is one of the best ways to get something where you want cheaply. It is almost always cheaper than either UPS or Fedex, especially for something that is heavy for its size.

      • –Mostly because of subsidies and other market distortions.

        But if you don;t have to ship physical objects, why bother using them at all?

        • cawpin

          I was talking about none of what you mentioned, only that it was cheap.

  • bobfairlane

    I think it’s really pathetic that all the pro-gun orgs. and pro-gun magazines together, can’t get a big kosher lawyer to get it in writing one way or the other, for each state, and post the results. Post offices vary, but seems they never even have a public restroom to pee in, and aren’t very “public”. I don’t care if someone carries their pistol in a post office to go mail something. I don’t even care if every post office employee had a 45 under their armpit. But what’s the law in writing on this?

    • zak

      You are a bigot sir. Why does it have to be a kosher lawyer? not funny.

      • Bryan

        One definition of kosher:

        ko•sher (ˈkoʊ ʃər)
        adj.
        […]
        2. proper; legitimate.

        In the context used it is actually the definition that makes the most sense too. So I see very little that has anything to do with being bigot-like here. I think you overreacted a bit.

  • “After all, we know we cannot carry concealed in a courthouse, we know we cannot carry concealed in an airport, and in the vast majority of states we’re not allowed to carry concealed inside a school.”
    Maybe in your state Jason but in Washington state I CAN carry in the airport (open or concealed) and I can carry into the courthouse but have to lock it up with security. Had you started the sentenance with “in the vast mojority of states” I would agree but you made it sound like it’s not legal in ANY state. Please Jason, a little more research next time….

    • Don Bernstein

      I also live in the beautiful state of Washington William and I totally agree with you; I’ve made it my mission to know the laws regarding where and where not I can legally carry.
      Thank you for your input 🙂

    • clayton

      Agreed, a gun lobby (more specifically, their lawyers) just gave the airport Chief security representative of Portland International Airport a lesson on the Federal and State constitutions, and after a long battle, they change their sign which prohibited firearms because that prohibition was illegal. I don’t believe an airport is a federal building though. It is funded partially by federal govt most of the time, but owned by state or investors, cities, or who ever else paying the bill. Don’t take that as Gospel though. But I know it was hammered out in Portland. That doesn’t necessarily mean it will be interpreted the same everywhere else.

    • cawpin

      “Had you started the sentenance with “in the vast mojority of states” I would agree ”

      I wouldn’t. I’d say most states DON’T restrict carry in airports other than beyond security checkpoints but that is the TSA’s doing not the airport or state.

  • Docs150

    I do not use the post office much anymore and luckily for now it is walking distance in ‘safe’ area so I have no use for concealed carry after I’ve checked out the area before i arrive…On the rare occasion I have driven in the parking lot my CCW has already been removed and placed in console so no one has a chance to see it…As far as phideaux’s comment…kudos…

  • skip

    This is true of any federal property. Concealed permits are issued by the state. State law doesn’t apply on federal property. The post office is federal property, so it doesnt matter what each state’s laws say, or which state you’re in. Your state issued concealed carry permit isn’t valid in any post office (or any other federal building).

    • Who owns Federal Property . . . We Do. So, it sounds like we should be carrying open in the PO then . . . that might actually prevent crime . . . except for the anti-gun people who might think someone is coming in to rob the place. After all, don’t most people who walk in to commit a robbery carry a gun in a holster on their hip, visible?

    • Barry Hirsh

      Since federal law clearly states for “other lawful purposes”, the government (and courts) insisting that plain English doesn’t really mean what it says is not worthy of obedience.

  • jeremy

    We sure do red allot of articles about how to follow unconstitutional laws. I very rarely read one about us working together and fulfilling the mandate left to us by our founding fathers to retain our freedoms.

  • Craig

    One of the things they told us, in my State, during the concealed classes, was that it was certainly illegal, inside, but just leave it in the vehicle… Some have said a 1000 feet, etc..
    Oh well, guess you just have to take your chances, and pray for success…. I don’t think I will rent a locker at the bus station, to park the piece while I get a book of stamps… One of the things that was done, was a pretty thorough back ground check… about like the one I got as a candidate for L.E.O, and if I was a risk, why bother issuing a permit….All the damned laws are only going to affect the law abiding permit holders…. All, or most, of the questionable people are going to do what they want anyway……………What Crap..! !

  • Dogshawred

    My post office has on street parking on 2 sides of the building and their street side mail boxes are in an alley 1/2 block away from the PO building. And that is the Post Office in the larger city in the area our out lying communities are all street parking available.

  • That’s why I go to the ‘post office’ inside my grocery store. They do all the same services as a post office, except a PO box, and they are usually grocery store employees. Meaning, they are not grumpy government workers and are happy to help. And I still carrry.

    • CWM- You said it perfectly. I’m a CCW instructor in California (a very busy one besides what you may think about CA.) and the CCW lifestyle is one about making choices that allow you to carry your gun everywhere it’s legal to do so. If I can’t go there with my gun, I find an alternative solution.

    • Paul E

      This is my preferred method too. The part of the store contracted for the Post Office is the same as a real post office. I stay away from the counter. Remember that you can order your stamps delivered to your home. I rarely need to enter any postal facility. Get your supplies on a rare visit and prepare your packages at home. When you have mail held for a few day, the postal carrier will bring you the bundle when you get home.

      If the government want for us to disarm they shoudl require their offices to provide lock boxes at the entrances to buildings.

    • Albert Gazalooch

      Contract stations within another business such as a grocery store, drug store, hardware store or private mailing center are exemptions from this law. Specifically it’s traditional post offices or buildings leased or rented by the USPS that maintain the prohibition.

  • Jesse Albritton

    The rule that bothers me more than this is the one pertaining to parades. Any insight on this matter?

  • Marty Verostek

    I am a strong believer in the Second Amendment Right to Bare Arms; so if you are leagally carrying a concealed weapon you should be able to carry it anywhere and at any time. After all, going through the background investigation including the finger printing at a cost of around $149.00 (non refundable), concealment carry classes at around $75.00, and range qualifications, there should be no restrictions on the carry issue. And as far as having a concealed weapon on public property issue, that is rediculous in every aspect. Making it illeagal to carry in any posted area such as the post office is one thing (not in favor) but to be arrested for locking it up in your cars glove box while trying to follow the posted sign and being fired over this situation is crazy. STEPPING DOWN OFF MY SOAP BOX AS NOT TO UPSET SOMEONE.

    • Barry Hirsh

      It’s right to BEAR arms, not BARE arms.

      • dec3169

        To be fair, in this country you also have a right to *bare* arms.

  • Disappointed

    Ridiculous and poorly written. Factually incorrect in the opening paragraph. “…we know we cannot carry concealed in an airport,” Really? Since when is concealed carry in the non-sterile portion of an airport automatically illegal?

  • Steve from Salem

    I always thought it was to keep disgruntled P.O. employees from shooting up their coworkers.

  • AnnieOakley22

    So it is best to order stamps online and mail as much as you possibly can from home. SAY… does this law apply to UPS and FED EX? if not guess how I’ll be shipping things from now on.

  • Barry Hirsh

    Just do what I do. Buy stamps at the super market, print shipping labels from the online USPS site, and if a trip to the Post Office is unavoidable, screw ’em and carry. Like they’ll actually KNOW….?

    John Locke said that an unjust law is no law at all. Werks fer ME.

  • Tecojim

    The US 2 Amendment says I have that right. Now who is right??

  • Retired with no bullet holes

    I can’t believe all the nut jobs who live in America. I have lived in the USA all my life and have traveled all over the world. There isn’t a safer place to live. You have to go out of your way to look and find trouble in this great country. One thing I’m sure of is that you never want to rely on an FBI or CIA agent for help or advise ,or saving your ass. However, they are experts at shuffling papers. I was a great shot when I was paid to be one. However, I worked with men who were so unbelievable, that pulling a gun on them would be tantamount to committing suicide. All I can say is never think your too good a shot and stay behind some thing a bullet won’t go through if you decide to get in a pissing contest with a person with a loaded gun.

  • pgh2160

    I am a postal worker. A Federal Firearms Licensee may mail and receive firearmes in the mail. But not Joe citizen. Also the regulation pertaining to firearms on postal property specifically mentions “For official business” I see people “printing” all the time, as far as I am concerned they are there to pick up and drop off mail. This is in my opinion, official business, so you don’t get no grief in my line.

  • Paul

    FFL’s can ship handguns and long guns to each other via U.S. Mail.

  • damax

    Thanks for the heads up I for one am guilty as charged!

  • saenforcer

    I would suggest everyone heed the writers word, and as for the fella in Wyoming, since its a federal law, the Chief of Police is not the one to worry about, it’s the Postal Inspectors, and Federal agents. Just to let you know, if for some reason you pi$$ed of a postal employee that day you were wearing your cowboy gun, you should know that just about every post office in the country has surv. video. All it would take is for this postal employee to contact a postal Inspector, let the inspector know he has you on video carrying a gun, and since you were probably mailing something he has your name and address, so from the day you did that to the end of the statue of limitations for that federal law you broke, you may be arrested. Police have a saying, you may beat the crime, but you won’t beat the ride, and are you rich enough to hire an attorney and pay him tens of thousands of dollars to keep your freedom from being taken away from you for a bs charge? Even as a large city police off., who by my states charter states we are always on duty, I won’t wear my off duty weapon onto post office property, because the semantics of what is official purposes is just to vague for me to want to trust my future to what a federal law enforcement officer considers is official or not, while i’m off duty and not wearing a uniform.

  • groot nadine

    the employee was terminated for violating employer policy, nothing more…
    Many employers have restrictions on weapons on their premises….

  • barneymac

    When are we going to demand that stupid laws be overturned? We are only feeding lawyers with this nonsense.

  • Brian…

    Here is a question: according to the law…

    In fact, the Code of Federal Regulations – Title 39 – which is named “Conduct on Postal Property” says “No person while on postal property may carry firearms, other dangerous or deadly weapons, or explosives, either openly or concealed, or store the same on postal property, except for official purposes.”
    it states clearly, “…other dangerous or deadly weapons”…. does that mean my pocket knives or sheath knives I carry on my person?
    I have been stopped by a local Cnty Sherriff in Midland, TX and was told I could not wear or carry them into the post office and would have to leave them in my vehicle.
    Any thoughts on this. (Sorry I know this started out about firearms.)

    • GlennBillings

      I can’t tell you right now about knives in Post Offices and even their parking lots, but I can tell you that at other Federal Facilities knives longer that 2 and 1/2 inches is considered a “dangerous weapon” and is prohibited.

      Andthe term “facilities” in some cases means the actual building NOT including the Public parking lot.
      See title 18 Section 930 Paragraph (g)(2)—

      (2) The term “dangerous weapon” means a weapon, device, instrument, material, or substance,
      animate or inanimate, that is used for, or is readily capable of, causing death or serious bodily
      injury, except that such term does not include a pocket knife with a blade of less than 21/2 inches
      in length.

  • I’m in and out and I keep my mouth shut.

  • nagmashdriver

    Stop spamming Linda, or whatever your name is.

  • tjbarta

    I am a rural carrier with USPS and have a valid TX CHL. My question is as an employee on the clock, using my own vehicle for delivery, can I carry while on the job (while in MY vehicle). I know the answer I would get if I asked anyone within USPS but not too sure it would be legally correct.

  • Xeanth

    I find it funny … you can not carry a firearm into a post office, yet the only way a person can mail a firearm to a gunsmith, or a manufacturer, is to carry it into a post office. So by obeying the law, you are breaking the law.

    • cawpin

      That is completely wrong.

  • Grits.N.Jowls

    Not only do I carry in my local post office in Decatur, GA but I openly carry. There are no posted signs indicating the legality one way or the other; So I’m gonna keep carrying until a manager tells me otherwise and then I’m gonna raise political and publicity hell.

  • Grits.N.Jowls

    And you need to update your information on carrying in airports; I openly carry in the non-sterile areas of the Atlanta airport as is authorized by our state laws.

  • disqus_MZe2ymfHQj

    What happened to, your car is an extension of you home. And if your gun is in your glove compartment
    how do they know, without illegal search?

  • Mike Leahy

    I am confused. I live in Massachusetts and I was told “You cannot leave a gun (for any amount of time), locked or unlocked, loaded or not loaded in your vehicle no matter where you are parked, It’s a felony”. My safety instructor was quite specific about this

    • cawpin

      While I doubt that is actually true, you’re in Massachusetts. Assume everything you do with a gun is illegal.

  • Devlin

    I have to pull into a gas station parking lot just to go check the mail at the post office next door. Stupid thing to do but I have to do it.

  • Albert Gazalooch

    The post office I visit is across from a park. I put my piston in a locked bank bag then walk across the street to take care of my business. I do take a small risk driving to the drop boxes which are about 300 feet from the building and the driveway doesn’t connect with the parking lot. I doubt the postal inspectors or security even consider harassing those who mildly violate this policy.

  • WmsFamily Williams

    Well let me make this very clear to anyone and everyone. If you enter a Post Office with firearm and I see or learn of it. I will arrest you. CCW or not. You can’t carry a weapon onto Federal Property…Military Installations, Post Office, Federal Building, etc…Be Smart, DON’T DO IT!!!
    Thanks for your time,
    CRW

    • cawpin

      Not if I’m there on official business you won’t. You don’t get to make it up as you go.

      • WmsFamily Williams

        I’m not seeing your point. Any L.E.O. on official duty is clearly on duty and operating in official capacity. No one is making things up as they go. Well, I hope not!!!

        • cawpin

          Being a LEO isn’t the only official business involving firearms at the post office.

  • Joe Hast

    I won’t go to the Post office when at all possible. I have found other ways to send money which is free. Also there is a small postal outpost at our local grocery store which technically is not a postal building. The post office will not get my money whenever possible. The post office has become a failure and is costing US taxpayers millions of dollars. If you want to see how insane the postal service is just take a look at their online exam to become a postal employee, anyone can take it and that should sum things up for you.

  • Larry

    Curious as to how LE going into a post office as a customer doesn’t violate the law:

    “Code of Federal Regulations – Title 39 – which is named “Conduct on
    Postal Property” says “No person while on postal property may carry
    firearms, other dangerous or deadly weapons, or explosives, either
    openly or concealed, or store the same on postal property, except for
    official purposes”

    Going in as a customer is not “official purposes”.

  • Jamie Jamieson

    the official capacity thing is only the opinion of that lawyer

    seen many lawyers give advice saying the law means this or that and person following advice from that lawyer got arrested and now is in prison

    other lawful purposes is other lawful purposes and fact it not includes the specific official capacity thing makes me think lawyers adding things to a law when those words is missing from the law is anti gun and twists every little thing to make you a criminal for even touching a gun for any reason

    if limited to official capacity then the law would include the words making it mean official capacity

  • Ron

    Sounds like a clear violation of the Second Amendment of the US Constitution. “Shall not be infringed” means exactly what it means. Appellate court be damned, the federal government has NO right to strip our Constitutional rights when we set foot on federal property — which is owned by Us, by the PEOPLE.

    This needs to be challenged and won, at all costs. Revolutions have been fought over smaller issues.

  • punished inspector

    ever since the postal service started partnering with a certain carry-friendly grocery chain in my State, I have zero need whatsoever to go to the actual post office.

  • Donald Pump

    I usually carry a fully automatic ak47 with me to the post office, you never know.

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