“What the hell was that?!?” she said.
It took me a half a second to realize that my gun had just gone off…on my hip…in its holster. My wife and I had just finished breakfast at our favorite café and got into the car. Me being the passenger, I rotated my torso to the left to fasten my seatbelt like I always do. When I straightened again, my Glock 19 discharged, blowing a 9mm hole through my pants, underwear, the leather seat and bottom of the car’s door frame.The bullet nicked my hip, but the wound is nothing a bandage couldn’t cover.
So what went wrong? Guns never go “Bang” all by themselves. After ensuring I wasn’t hemorrhaging profusely and didn’t have to make a dash for the hospital, I stayed seated in the car as my wife came around to my door and opened it. I undid my belt and slid the Galco JAK202 Slide Belt Holster, with the gun still in it, off my belt. Why it went off was immediately apparent.
Source: Its Tactical
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Does this gun not have a safety?! WTF! Carrying a hot weapon?!
Looks to be a Glock, so as others have said, no no manual “safety”
How else would you carry a weapon?
I carry a Gold Cup, have done so for over 40yrs (both police and military). Like the ability to carry it cocked and locked, and if for some reason a bad guy was able to get it away from me he has at least three safetys to defeat. Not so with the glock
I carry my Glock 23, “cocked and locked” there is nothing about the Glock that makes it unsafe, just people who don’t know how to properly manipulate the gun, or are being negligent.
With any gun a proper holster is essential. The guy in question was being negligent by continuing to use a holster so worn. Simple.
Remember, a manual safety requires that it be engaged by the user. If this guy isn’t going to take the time to use a proper holster what makes you think he’d use a manual safety…
I carry my Beretta 92 with the safety engaged. I can flip off the safety with my thumb in the same movement that draws it from the holster if I want it ready to fire. Otherwise pulling the trigger will not fire it. There are to many accidental, unintentional ways to cause trigger movement.
Yep, that’s how it works. If you don’t have one in the pipe, you have nothing more than a $500 brick.
I hope I don’t get slammed for this, but I’m not comfortable carrying a Glock with a round in the chamber. Plenty of rounds in the mag, much more comfortable (for me at least) to have to pull the slide back for the gun to fire. Heck, like the sound a shotgun makes, an attacker is very likely to BTFO once they hear you pull that slide back. 🙂
BTW, neither my Glock 17 nor my Kel-Tec PF-9 have a manual safety…and I carry each of them without a round in the chamber.
Don Montalvo, TX
Under stress, facing an active threat do you think that you’d be able to draw from your holster, rack the slide, and put sites on target without fumbling, not racking the slide back far enough, giving away your position, etc?
I hope you practice/train that way…
The whole “the sound of a shot gun…” thing is a bit misleading. Sure it can be a scary sound to be on the wrong end of but it’s also a sound that lets the potential BG know where you are. Same as with racking the slide on your Glock, it just serves to give away your position. Never mind the fact that if your facing a BG hopped up on drugs, rage, desperation, etc. their likely not going to care much about you racking your firearm.
Excessive racking of firearms is great for the movies… but this is the real world, not so much.
I prefer to carry with my gun in a ready state, I prefer to minimize the fine motor skills I’ll need in a stressful situation… it’s all opinion but ask anyone (who’s competent) and they will tell you, that it’s idiotic to not carry with your gun in a ready state. No round in the chamber? You might as well carry with a trigger lock on your gun as much good as it will do you.
I’m not saying that you should do something your not comfortable with. I am saying that you should practice, train (seek professional help if necessary) so that you can become comfortable carrying with your firearm in a ready state.
Otherwise, your technique should be to draw and throw the whole gun at the BG as much good as carrying without a round in the chamber will do you.
Interesting points, but I’m not sold. I’ve had to draw my concealed weapon twice in the past year. Once when I was in my car, stopped at a light when a “homeless” person wouldn’t take no for an answer and started to hit my driver side window – he BTFO once I drew my pistol and pulled the slide back to chamber a round. Another time when I was walking down a dimly lit street and turned around to see someone walking up to me with a knife in his hand – again I drew, pulled, and he BTFO very quickly.
I handle stress/pressure quite calmly, unlike many of my friends who tend to freak out. I’m quite quick and accurate, able to shoot with either hand. I’ve never had a problem going to a ready state. Ever.
That said, if I have the choice (which I do) between carrying a Glock with a round in the chamber, vs carrying a Ruger LC9 with the thumb safety enabled and a round in the chamber, I would pick the later.
If I had a choice between carrying my Glock or my Kel-Tec (neither have a manual safety) with or without a round in the chamber, I would pick the later. I do, so I don’t.
I respect everyone’s opinion. No need to be snarky (words like “competent” and “get professional help” are condescending and don’t really help your argument). I’ve been handling weapons for well over 30 years, in the military and as a civilian. I’ve been practicing with a wide number of weapons for as many years, both at the range and out in the woods. No comfort or competency issue here.
I’ve also spent over 40 years living in New York City where only bad guys carry weapons. I’ve seen plenty of them show off their wounds from AD, and I’m not interested in having it happen to me. So for me (and the kids, and the dog, etc.), I’m fine carrying a pistol that has no manual safety without one in the chamber – there may be times where I *would*, but I’m very sure when and where I would, if I ever did. 🙂
Thanks for your input though.
Don Montalvo, TX
So, since it’s virtually impossible to legally carry a weapon in NYC as a citizen and you’ve lived there for over 40 years, PLUS you have over 30 Years handling weapons, that means you’re (to use your words) “well over” 70 years old, actually, over 88 since you can’t enlist until you’re 18, unless you had parental consent and went in at 17. So, benefit of the doubt here we’ll say you’re well over 87 years old….and yet you’ve got kids at home?
ALSO
You drew on an unarmed homeless person who was hitting your window?!? You’re lucky he didn’t call the cops on you! Brandishing at the minimum, criminal recklessness with a deadly weapon, or intimidation more likely charges. God forbid you’d fired, you’d have failed the reasonable man test necessary to claim self defense.
If you’re too uncomfortable to carry a weapon with a round chambered if that gun doesn’t have a safety than you need to be carrying a weapon with a safety, although, given your propensity for drawing on people, you probably shouldn’t be carrying anything more dangerous than a cell phone!
Or as I liek to tell people- There are some pretty useless things in this world. Among are an unopened umbrella in the rain; foam rubber padding in bras, empty fire extinguishers, and a gun with nothing in the pipe but air. And I do use the Fobus holster for my Model 22 40 cal Glock.
Vinch1006, I also used to use the Fobus Paddle Holster, which is good, but for very good Concealed Carry, I now use the Kholster Holster IWB. Very comfortable and very concealed. Runs about $50 but you can get a discount by entering a code from someone who already bought one (10% and free shipping).
Yep, I carry my Glock 26 everyday in my Kydex holster with one in the chamber. I’ve never been big on leather holsters but that’s more of a personal choice for me.
If the images above are of the actual weapon, it is a Glock and therefore has no manual safety. That’s exactly the reason I do not use leather holsters. Once they get worn, they lose their ability to hold shape and can cause this kind of discharge. Thankfully the nobody was injured as a result.
I find it amusing that people are surprised that a Glock has no external, manual safety. It’s actually one of the reasons that they’re so popular and function so well.
All of our (my wife and I) Glocks are always loaded and have still killed or injured less people than Ted Kennedy’s car…
That’s one of the reasons I switched to my Glock 26 from a Taurus PT140. I didn’t want the manual safety.
Looks to me like the holster had some wear issues. I see nothing wrong with leather holsters and with some guns, it’s hard to find anything else. However, simple inspection of your holster should be done each time you strap your gun on. If the leather is getting weak or flimsy, replace it.
First, I’m glad no one was injured (worse).
This was no “accident” as there are NO accidental discharges. It was irresponsible to be using such a worn holster. Plain and simple. Especially with a handgun that has no manual safety. Inspection should be carried out each and EVERY time you carry. Safety first..for ALL. A Galco CCP concealed carry paddle or M4X Matrix auto lock would have been a much better choice.
I’ve shot Glocks, I like them…but they and other non-manual safety handguns are not for me specifically for THIS reason. For several reasons I prefer the manual safety of my Taurus OSS DS and the option to de-cock for CC/OC. It’s ready to fire at the flip of my thumb.
Oh, stop it. Everyone should be treating their firearm as if it were not loaded to begin with.
This is not the fault of the gun design, or even the holster. It was a person using a holster that should have been retired long ago. Judging from the pictures the person had to wiggle the gun past the lip that formed.
It’s simple negligence no need to start a debate about how Glocks are unsafe. Keep in mind to that most of your polymer pistols today are not equipped with a manual safety.
Use the safety between your ears.
“Oh, stop it. Everyone should be treating their firearm as if it were not loaded to begin with”
Should be:
“Oh, stop it. Everyone should be treating their firearm as if it were loaded to begin with”
It is not the guns fault but the owners for using such an worn out holster. I use a crossbreed supertuck deluxe. Its a leather-kydex combination and I do not have to worry about the shape of it deforming like a regular holster. By the looks of it he is using a Galco leather holster. I have had a few Galco products and still use one for open carry, but every IWB Galco holster I’ve had was either poorly designed or flimsy. I carry a CZ75-P-01 (no manual safety, but it has a decker mode.
I know almost nothing about Glocks. I use a Beretta 92FS and can easily flip the thumb safety to hot in the same motion I draw it from the holster. So, even with the same defective holster this guy used inadvertently depressing the trigger will not fire it. Is it different with Glocks? Is there no way to secure the trigger from defective holsters? If not, seems to be a safety deficiency?
Glocks do not have a thumb safety.
From Wikipedia:
“Safety
Glock pistols are designed with three independent safety mechanisms to prevent accidental discharge. The system, designated “Safe Action” by Glock, consists of an external integrated trigger safety[35] and two automatic internal safeties: a firing pin safety[36] and a drop safety.[37] The external safety is a small inner lever contained in the trigger. Pressing the lever activates the trigger bar and sheet metal connector. The firing pin safety is a solid hardened steel pin that, in the secured state, blocks the firing pin channel (disabling the firing pin in its longitudinal axis). It is pushed upward to release the firing pin for firing only when the trigger is actuated and the safety is pushed up through the backward movement of the trigger bar. The drop safety guides the trigger bar in a ramp that is released only when direct rearward pressure is applied to the trigger. The three safety mechanisms are automatically disengaged one after the other when the trigger is squeezed, and are automatically reactivated when the trigger is released.[14][38] This passive safety system omits the manipulation of traditional on-off levers, hammers or other external safeties as found in many other handgun designs.
In 2003, Glock announced the Internal Locking System (ILS) safety feature. The ILS is a manually activated lock that is located in the back of the pistol’s grip. It is cylindrical in design and, according to Glock, each key is unique. When activated, the lock causes a tab to protrude from the rear of the grip giving both a visual and tactile indication as to whether the lock is engaged or not. When activated, the ILS renders the Glock unfireable as well as making it impossible to disassemble. When disengaged, the ILS adds no further safety mechanisms to the Glock pistol. The ILS is available as an option on most Glock pistols. Glock pistols cannot be retrofitted to accommodate the ILS. The lock must be factory built in Austria and shipped as a special order.”
In a nut shell the only way for a Glock to fire is if you PULL THE TRIGGER. People decry Glock for the lack of a thumb safety and all I can do is shake my head. The only safety deficiency one needs to worry about is the one between your ears.
So trigger movement disengages the “safety”?! I will NEVER own a Glock for that reason alone. There are to many things that can cause an unintentional, unwanted, and unsafe trigger movement as this case demonstrates. This is an intrinsically unsafe design. IMHO ay yi yi!
Well, so long as you keep your finger and foreign objects (like your holster) off the trigger then you would not have a problem.
Plenty of people have NDs with guns equipped with a “safety.” Just because you have a button does not mean you can disengage the safety between your ears,
“Just because you have a button does not mean you can disengage the safety between your ears,” ~ Well put… something most people forget.
No. First you have to defeat the external passive safety before the trigger can be moved. The only thing that is intrinsically unsafe is a person who is either unable or unwilling to learn how to properly and safely operate a device that is used safely and successfully by millions of people worldwide.
It’s really simple: If you DON’T press the trigger, the Glock DOESN’T go “BOOM!”
The holster pressed the trigger in this case, which is just as negligent as pressing it with your own finger. If you can’t keep your finger out of the trigger guard until you’ve made the decision to shoot, you have no business carrying one for self-defense. There is NO myriad of things that cause “unintentional, unwanted, OR unsafe trigger movement” OTHER than negligence.
Worth the read…
http://sleepless.blogs.com/george/2006/03/accidental_hand.html
Google “top accidental handgun discharges” and browse over 4.7 million results at your leisure. lol (I see stupid people…)
Like others have stated, Use the safety between your ears…and carry what you;re comfortable with.
One’s safety is between’s one’s ears. Whether or not there is a multitude of safeties on the handgun itself, if the between the ears safety is not engaged, bad things are gonna happen.
I can tell by the picture he’s using a flimsy worn holster with no reinforced mouth…I don’t doubt he had a AD with it.
Actually the Galco Stow-N-Go holster does have a reinforced mouth around where the slide comes in contact with it in a ‘squared horseshoe’ and is un-reinforced on the rear of the opening. The AceCase IWB holster that I used to use was the same construction and not easy to re-holster.
That is the reason I went with the hybrid holster from Kholster (similar to the Crossbreed SuperTuck). The leather backing protects you and the pistol from contact and perspiration, and the kydex holster shell protects the pistol and secures it to you.
Wow, this is one of the reasons I prefer kydex over leather for this part of the holster. The only leather I want is the stuff that touches my skin.
Don Montalvo, TX
Does look like some wear on that leather, mostly why I like hybrid holsters for IWB, like the CrossBreed holsters.
This is exactly why I don’t carry a Glock anymore. I carry a Springfield XD that has a grip safety similar to the grip safety on a 1911, if my hand isn’t on the butt, it isn’t going to fire. I don’t think that carrying without a round in the chamber is viable, I’m not going to bet my life that I will have time to rack the slide.
I have done the same going with the Springfield as well.
I also carry a Springfield… .45 Ultra Compact. While it has an external safety, I have found that there are situations where you can disengage the safety accidentally. I keep a round chambered but with the hammer uncocked. I’ve practiced numerous hours now so that as I am pulling the weapon I am also cocking it. This may not be for everyone, but for me this seems to be the safest way I can carry without the possibility of an accidental discharge. And as everyone should know, practice makes perfect (muscle memory = ability to perform).
Does the Glock not have a grip safety like the XD? If so – how did it discharge? This is why I only carry pistols that have a manual safety. My own peace of mind.
Nope! There are three passive safeties on the Glock pistol, but all are controlled by the “Glock Safety Trigger”. Once the ‘inner-trigger paddle’ is depressed allowing the main trigger to be moved rearwward and release the striker firing pin, the pistol goes boom!
I took some heat for presenting a user added Manual Safety Kit for the Glock here on USA Carry, and having it installed would have prevented this ‘Unintentional Discharge’ of the Glock 19.
I had a friend that had an Accidental Discharge at the range with his Glock after he holstered it. We could not duplicate the problem and the trigger and firing mechanism was thoroughly inspected and tested, and there was no holster malfunction. We all installed the Manual Safety Kit on our Glocks. It’s a user choice, like muzzle-porting to control muzzle-flip and recoil. You want it, you do it, you don’t, then don’t do it!
Equipment should be inspected before & after each use. It’s doubtful that this happened out of the blue.
A Siderlock for the trigger probably wouldn’t be a bad idea either.
Get a Crossbreed Supertuck. I threw my Galco Sto & Go away when I got mine.
If you’re trained as a police officer, as I am, unholstering, taking it off safe, then firing takes less than 2 seconds. If you can’t do it that fast, get a Glock or another weapon that has no external safety. Otherwise, buy a weapon with an external safety ’cause it’s there for a reason….like this situation!
Isn’t it funny how sensitive Glockaholics get and will start explaining/quoting all this info? And that’s perfectly fine. When you find something you like and passionate about it, stick with it if it works for you. My preference just happens to be a manual safety.
But like everyone is stating, this was user error. Plain and simple.
I prefer my S&W 10mm, and am used to using the safety, but also got a Glock – as I was training with LEOs and they all had Glocks! Prefer to use a locking hard case holster for the Glock
Thats why Springfield’s are the best… besides the trigger safety they have a handle safety too. This would have never happened
Why does the picture show the holster as it would be on the LEFT side of a person? Other picture shows hole in seat to the RIGHT of the person?
That’s because this particular holster was carried outside the waistband but between the WB and the belt. Here is what the guy said in the full story:
“The trusty, comfortable, leather holster I had been using for a year and two weeks had done what a baseball glove does after lots of use; It got soft. This particular holster carries the pistol outside the waistband, but inside the belt. The belt slides through slots in the outer side of the holster.”
A strange way to carry a pistol, but the theory is that the belt helps retain the weapon in the ‘reversed slider holster’.
[…] Kaboom! Just like Forrest Gump, he “was shot in the buttocks”. Read more by clicking here. […]
Great video, too many people don’t know how quickly a stab moves. Another point is those of us who carry are REACTING to the threat so they always have the advantage. Another argument against not carrying a chambered round is your loss of dexterity when your fight or flight instinct kicks in.
I use an IWB holster (Galko G109L) with my Glock 23 and noticed the holsters’ possibility of causing exactly this sort of mishap with the Glock trigger safety. As a result I’ve made it a habbit of not unholstering the glock when I take it off or put it on. I’ve never had any issue with the gun slipping in the holster while wearing it and I like the holster for concealed carry better than anything else I’ve tried. I spent a couple of hours stretching the holster when I first got it to lessen the possibility of the leather folding inside the trigger guard.
Thanks brother for the web site. Good info but it looks kind of strange to me. He is showing his right side but the clip for the holster is a left hand clip unless he wears it with the handle pointing out and that would be awful awkward if you ask me.
Brother, I dont think that is a clip on the holster you are refrring to…that is the slide of the glock.
Nope brother, that’s just it, that is the slide you are talking about It;s like MA’s 9mm S&W. I took mine and her’s and turned it the same way in the photo and the clip should be showing on the side facing out towards us if it is a right hand carry. And it is an old leather carry and it has the clip according to lt. or rt. hand carry. The trigger is caught on the low side of the holster. The low side is to give you quick access on the trigger and it is opposite the belt clip. That is a left hand carry and he was shot in the right hip.
Sorry the film is backward or something cause it ant jiving with me. I like the whole thing and I’m glad you sent it to me and don’t mean to make a big deal out of it but some one is pulling a quick one on the law. I enjoy this kind of stuff. I guess that is why I liked do the inspections were I use to work, I can catch things when they don’t look right.
Brother
this is a conversation between me and my brother. I still believe I am right.
Sorry Bemer, but if you post on an open forum, it is PUBLIC not a private conversation… That Galco Holster is a RIGHT HAND outside the waistband but under the belt type. Some like them. The full story tells more than what was posted on USA Carry’s Forum.
Thanks JP, I know this is a PUBLIC forum, I was posting the thought process we both were going through because of the holsters appearance in the picture, I’m sure you can see my understanding that it appears to be a Lt hand carry holster.
Thanks for the info on the Galco Holster, was not familiar with this type of carry. Sure seams like it would be awkward to pull from that seemingly tight quarters and a little uncomfortable.
Bemer
Welcome to TEAM GLOCKLEG. Just busting your chops there, but that is why I went for the XD platform over the Glock. I wanted the passive safety on the grip. That right there would have prevented the AD, but would not have been an extra step in a defensive situation.
A Springfield would never have done this.
Seat belt will do it every time. That’s exactly what the Liberals want, one way or the other.
They make seat belts mandatory, since Conservatives would wear them more, anyway, based upon their own principles, excepting when told what to do by the Police State.
In that way, they get more Conservatives killed off in the long run, get it?
Yep, friend, I feel for you. I used to carry a Ruger P97 in a Galco Jak Slide as my EDC. It, too, became a bit misshapen around the trigger guard. IMHO, keep the Glock and ditch the holster! Maybe something in leather with a bit more substance, or a synthetic? If finances are a factor, and to whom aren’t they one, Fobus makes several inexpensive options that may work for you. Glad that you and your wife are safe!
Dillion and other companies sell a blocking device that fits behind the Glock trigger and releases with a little pressure from your trigger finger. I have seen them used in practice and they are very fast to dismount. The device might have prevented a problem like this. One does have to pick them up off the ground after dismounting them but the evidence guy can do that for you when he collects the brass.
Or, had the Cominolli Manual Safety Kit been installed, the accidental discharge could have been avoided entirely!
For all my friends who carry a double action with a leather holster … this is for you. You might want to consider a single action.
Hey, Larry B, do you even know what the difference between a double and single action is? Your comment has exactly zero point…
Kydex holsters that fully cover the trigger are so much safer. This wouldn’t happen with a Theis or Crossbreed holster.
Still like my M1911. Rather hard to do with it. Yet it works just fine!
Way too much bravos and chest thumping going on here. So, we train for tactical reloads, but somehow training to release a thumb safety upon drawing a handgun is too much to ask for? The facts are the facts. The gun would not have “negligently” fired if it had a safety engaged, regardless of what the holster would have done.
No Safety = Not Safe…Period