Situational Awareness at Church

Situational Awareness at Church

Situational Awareness at Church

I happen to be a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormon.) I tell you this because of an interesting thing that happened to me last week at church. You have probably seen the Mormon missionaries riding around on bicycles in suits with their nametags attached to their front pockets.

Well, the missionaries in my area asked me to get together with them last week at the church to help teach a guy who was interested in learning more about our religion. I agreed and got to the church a little early before everyone else.

As I was waiting in the lobby, a guy walked in the front door that looked “scary,” to say the least. He walked up to me and asked me who was in charge. Since I was the only one there, I told him I was. He then asked to speak with me in private because he needed to confess something. In my head I was thinking, “great, this guy’s going to tell me he just murdered someone.”

As I was trying to get him to tell me what he wanted to speak with me about…

An older church member that had just arrived walked up to see what was going on. The “scary man” (his official name now) again asked to speak with someone in private and the older gentleman agreed to go into a room with him.

I obviously wasn’t going to let the older church member go in the room alone with scary man so I followed the two of them in. As soon as we got in there, scary man asked to say a prayer before we got started and we agreed. However, during the prayer, I kept my eyes open, watching the guy’s hands the entire time.

It turns out scary man was riding around with his friend when they got pulled over by police. His friend had a series of tickets so the police impounded the car, arrested the friend, and scary man had walked to the church. The reason he wanted to speak with us is because he was looking for bus ride money to get home.

We ended up speaking with him for about an hour…

And ended up giving him bus money to get home. However, the point of this is not to tell you about being charitable. The point is, even though I was at church, I never took my eyes off this guy the entire time. Each time we prayed I kept my eyes open and I was watching his hands every moment. I was also sitting close enough to him to quickly react if need be.

You see, sometimes I’m out and about with friends and family and they’ll see me being cautious and they’ll make a comment such as “we’re at Disneyland, nothing bad happens here” or “we’re at an upscale mall, this place is safe.”

Of course that’s not true. It doesn’t matter if you’re riding the teacups or singing a song in church. Attacks can happen anytime, anywhere. So don’t get lulled into a false sense of security and don’t worry about your friends or family members who may laugh at you or tease you for being vigilant.

Also, there are a few other lessons included in this story too. For example, always follow the person into a room, never let them follow you. And never let someone leave alone with a person you don’t feel comfortable about. At first, scary man wanted to be alone in the room with the other church member, but I told him I was coming and just followed right in.

In other words, safety first and politeness second.

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  • clinteastwood44cal

    Jason: As the chief of our church’s 15 person security team I am exactly like you describe yourself.  We have had numerous incidents at our church that have made me overly cautious and suspicious of people with “the look”.  It amazes me that some of our own church members make negative remarks about why we need a security team but we keep on doing what we’re doing.  Some choose to be sheep, I consider myself and the team to be sheepdogs.

    • I believe that the majority of clergy believe that churches are sanctuaries of God that the sheep come to in order to find peace and refuge.  They also believe that churches are no place for weapons of any sort.  My last pastor found out that I had a CWP and carried a weapon with me.  He told me that he hoped I knew that I was to get permission from him before I could carry concealed in the church.   He also told me that he believed that he would protect the rights of church members that did not want other members carrying weapons in the church.  That is why I never asked him.  I already knew that answer would be no.  I believe that in the times we live in that more and more churches will come under attack.  I am already seeing the news reports here locally.  

  • I would bet my backup piece that he didn’t need money for a bus ride and that you just bought him a cheap bottle of vodka with your charity. 

    • Raceaford

      The heart of the recipient is God’s to judge.  Not ours. 

      • OngoingFreedom

         God gave us all a brain, Raceaford, and expects us to use it.  God did make us charitable beings, but charity without intelligence is, well, stupid.

        • Serenityinfire

           Amen 😉

      • Yeah but why allow your charity to be squandered. If they say they need a bus ticket, buy them the bus ticket. If they say they are hungry, buy them a meal. Handing over cash is never a good idea. 

    • Catfan63

      Good article, Jason! With the new standard forced on churches with security needed these days, all information related to church-related scenarios are very welcome!
       
      @Mike- you are probably correct… our church has a ‘no cash’ policy. If you need a bus ticket, we’ll go buy it for you. Same with gasoline, food, etc. It’s amazing how many folks will suddenly not need your help given that option.

  • Jasstack

    I too am a member of the Chruch of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. One of our meeting houses is located in a “sketchy” neighborhood. We’ve had several break ins over the years and stalkers have been found in our parking lot after dark. The building and parking lot are well lit at night, but I remain vigilant. Things happen fast and our members are too trusting most of the time. I wish I could carry more protection, but local laws don’t allow it. The crooks are well aware of that of course. I’ve heard it’s possible to get special permission from church leaders, so I’m looking into that.

    • Guest

      I’m another LDS member.  I also carry everywhere I go.  There are times when I feel the need to keep a close eye on strangers even at church, and I always find a seat that allows me to see the doors.  All of my friends know about my carry permit, and many of them have one also.  I used to let them know that I was carrying at church, but since I learned that the General Authorities discourage it, I keep the information to myself.  I believe that the only reason they discourage it, is to help maintain the spirit in meetings.  The spirit isn’t affected when no one knows it’s there.

  • JHDON

    Jason:  I like the article, I have been designated as Director of Security and am in the process of implementing security procedures.  As will happen there are skeptics as to why security in a church is needed, articles such as this help to squelch the skepticism. 

    In our church we view the Security as a Ministry.

  • Fyrewerx

    It may have been more likely that his plans changed when two of you met with him. He may have decided to “ask” for the money rather than “take” it.

  • While it’s a simple story, it packs a powerful message of readiness at all times.    Most people are wandering around in life always in condition green and never even thinking of potential problems.   The truly savvy person approaches life with a higher degree of caution  (condition yellow, if not orange when appropriate).    The moral to the story is always remain vigilant and prepared because you just never know.   The tie in to our firearms is always have one at the ready.   We want to expect the best from everyone, but we have to be prepared for the worst as well.   Thanks again Jason!

  • Worshipviolin

    I minister in churches all over the country, and somehow the subject of carrying guns often comes up, usually before the services start (without me starting the conversations).  LOTS of church members are packing.  Last month I was at a church where the pastor was talking to me about normal church stuff, then he suddenly asked me if I was packing.  I said yes, and then, after showing me his carry gun, he showed me where he always sat during the service, which had a very good view of the door.  A good sheperd watches over his sheep.  In the old days a rod and a staff were enough, but now the game seems to have changed.

    There are several churches that I minister at in South Carolina that always have no less than two men who are carrying and watch the doors at all times, and the pastors also pack.  I even know pastors who have taken all of the men in their church to get their permits.

    I know one pastor who has come under considerable criticism because he carries in church and because he has men carrying in his church.  The critics claim that he doesn’t have faith that God will protect him and his congregation.

    Is it a lack of faith?  Absolutely not.  Are we any safer inside of a church than we are outside of a church?  That is a question that should be asked of those who have been inside of churches that got shot up by madmen who came inside of the church doors and began slaughtering people.  Churches are not off limits any more.  It is no more a lack of faith to carry in church than it is to carry outside of a church.  If someone comes into a church with a gun and heads straight for the Sunday school classes, where your children are, do you want a gun in your hand?  I do.

    I have ministered MANY times with my gun on me.  I carry my gun everywhere that it is legal, without even thinking about the issue.  Why would I feel any differently about walking into a church with one in my waistband?  A church builing is just that…. a building.  Some say that it is a house of worship.  This is true, but every place is a place of worship for me.  I worship the same God if I am inside of a church building or if I am walking across a dark parking lot at midnight.  If a bad guy shows up, and if lethal force becomes necessary, then my gun is coming out of the holster, wherever I am.

    It is worthy of noting, however, that in some states it is illegal to carry in a place of worship, and in others you need the permission of the person in charge in order for it to be legal.

    • Top Shotta

      I grew up in a third world country that unfortunately had many instances where churches were the targets of criminals and pastors were slain. It is good to see that even religion can adapt to these dangerous times. God takes care of those who take care of themselves. I hope that if it ever comes down to it, you’ll be a little faster and accurate than the bad guy.

      • rone

        Well said!  Growing up in the U.S. we tend to be or get complacent.

         I’m reminded of the man of God sitting on his porch during a flood. With water to the porch steps a boat came by with an offer to remove him to safety. “I’m alright, help the others, God is my strength.”  The water rose to the first floor and from a second story window he spoke to another boat that came to rescue him. “I’m fine, God is my refuge, in him will I abide.”  Water now covered the house, as he sat on the roof to escape it, a helicopter came close to lower a ladder. He waved them off and with outstretched arms looked toward heaven and said. “Oh God, my faith in thee has never wavered as I rest in thee.” 

        The water rose another three feet and the man drown. Standing before the pearly gates, he was rather indignant with his inquiry to St Peter. Doggonit Pete…..what the heck happened? ” You were raised in the U.S., the lap of safety and abundance, ignorant to the world around you and the sacrifices made in Gods name. Caught up in the trappings of being and going through the motions of acting religious.  We sent two boats and a helicopter……………….sometimes you gotta help yourself.”

        Squint, walk backwards, take a new path, meet new people, change your hair, change your attitude………..what ever it takes to look at things differently.

        That big rock you’ve plowed around and cursed for 6 years, just could be the magnificent corner stone of your new fence.

    • rone

      Church’s are the most vulnerable places in today’s society and its easy to understand why. Our upbringing has made the church a safe place, a refuge which, needs to be reassessed. It’s been 8 years since an estranged husband walked into our church during communion. A five year old boy sat safely on the pew while his mother made the walk to the front. He simply walked in, sat by the boy for a moment, whispered a few words and left, hand in hand. Can you imagine how violated and guilty we all felt?

      First, we gun lovers need understand that guns are like spinach greens. Not every body likes em. 

      Situational awareness should be taught to the entire congregation and avoid the mention or use of guns. The fact is that a large group of well intentioned citizen/parishioners do not like guns. This should not weigh in their need to be taught situational awareness. Always observe before moving out of or into a situation. It can be a building, car, house or parking lot………you name it, just pause for a moment and assess the the over all picture. Car or human traffic positions,  body language and posture should be the focus.  Once you’ve arrived at your new location, remain vigilant.

  • Good article, Jason. I carry at church every Sunday. Since I’m concealed, nobody but God, my family, and myself know that I’m carrying. My dad, a 79 year old retired Baptist pastor carries (same church) along with several on and off duty police (he’s a chaplain). People are often predatory at church – looking for a quick handout or a sucker to mooch from. Not unlike your situation, people will use innocuous excuses to gain access to other area’s to get the layout for future break-ins or seeing what’s valuable. I’ve witnessed a few times in my life where people will start walking down the isle all the way to the front and disrupt a service in progress. Usually, it’s nothing but you never know these days. Always vigilant and ever mindful of our surroundings!

  • pastor T

    [Nehemiah.4:16-18] So it was, from that time on, that half of my servants worked at construction, while the other half held the spears, the shields, the bows, and wore armor; and the leaders were behind all the house of Judah.  Those who built on the wall, and those who carried burdens, loaded themselves so that with one hand they worked at construction, and with the other held a weapon.  Every one of the builders had his sword girded at his side as he built.

    Israel was rebuilding the wall in Jerusalem.  The ministers and leaders and people were armed and prepared against an attack of the enemy. They had a weapon in one hand and a tool in the other!  I am a pastor and I carry everywhere including in church.  My church knows that while I’m carrying the “Sword” (the bible) I’m also packing a 1911 in the small of my back and an extra clip in my pocket(only I know that particular info.).  I’ve got no shame, no fear, and faith in the Lord!  I know of churches that have been robbed when the offering plates were carried to an office for counting.  Not to mention the already mentioned church shootings!  The word also teaches that a wise man is prepared.  So Be wise…and be prepared!  It’s not a lack of faith it’s God given sense. 

  • Jsbrotherson

    Recently here in South Carolina a gunman came into a church during choir practice, held the choir at gunpoint, and robbed each member of the choir!

    • Shepherd caretaker

      If that happens at my church, the perp will only get precious metals.  Copper and lead.  Praying they never show up at our church.

  • blogengeezer

    Recent event ABQ NM: A reportedly self described ‘constitutionalists’ menacingly robbed a Catholic diocese after dark at gunpoint after getting the drop on security. Upon leaving with a safe (ironically empty), he approached an officer that had responded. A standard close quarters gunfight ensued, with the assailant accurately triple tapped. Our own large church has at any Sunday service, at least two, overtime paid, uniformed, armed city officers. During high threat situations, double that number. Plain clothes FBI, including off duty Officers are in membership, as well as uncounted CCW.

    We all Pray for the best, while prepared for the worst. The Denver incident, with their ‘guardian angel’ CCW ‘Church Lady’, is still fresh in our minds. With Faith it stays that way. We are NOT potential Victims in a ‘Gun Free Zone’, by any means. In that respect we are truly Blessed…. and Protected. We also VOTE to retain Our Rights. The Right to Self Defense. As retired US Marshal ‘WildBillforAmerica’ says on You Tube, “God Bless the USA…Again”.

  • Civilian75

    The “scary guy” now has a story of the “scary guy at church” that never took an eye off him and gave him bus money. 🙂 Jesus told his disciples, “I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves.” Mt10:16

    • Mark

      Great verse, I’ll have to write that one down.

  • Mark

    I have hear people in church wonder why we have a uniformed police officer standing in the back at every mass. Unfortunately, they feel overly safe in church. Here’s a real life example of just how unsafe you can be in church: April 27, 2011, Sanford, Florida – two masked and armed men entered a local church about 9:00 p.m. and robbed three church band members and the pastor, taking wallets, car keys, cash & credit cards. (reported by the Orlando Sentinel)

  • Rodgerroadstar99

    I am not a religious man in any means, do not attend any church, and go so far as saying I am a non-believer, but I do respect all religions and their right to worship.  It is such a shame that they do not even feel safe in their house of worship.  This world is a dangerous place to live.  I respect those of religion being wise enough to be cautious everywhere they tread.

    • pastor T

       “Rodgerroadstar99”  You say you are a “non-believer” and you were not the least condescending in your reply, I appreciate that!  You sound like an honorable individual.  I would like to mention to you that you are right about the dangerous world that we live in.  It might interest you to know that the Bible predicted these times that we live in, and how they will not get better but worse, and then the end will come.  It would be wise for you to make plans for the life beyond this one.  I’m not suggesting you check into religion, but that you look into the Word of God and seek out a Bible believing church.  It will have great value in this life and in eternity to come…God Bless!

  • 91jeepYJ

    Having situational awareness at church is a good thing.  However, not being able to defend yourself at church is not a good thing.  Why is the LDS church the only church in the entire state listed on the BCI website for places of worship off limits to concealed carriers?  I know all those Mormons own guns, preparing for the end times and such, but apparently church is one place they’re not worried about defending themselves.  I don’t know….. I’m just sayin’.

    We’ve held concealed carry classes at my church and I’m sure other churches in the valley have to.  Hunter’s Ed courses are even offered at churches around here.  In fact, my pastor found out that I carry and 2 months later had volunteered our building for a class that he, his son, and his son-in-law, among other members of our church have all attended.  Situational awareness was one of the things covered in that class too.  The pastor’s wife has commented that the safest place to be on Sunday mornings is at our church.  🙂  

  • 91jeepYJ

    Having situational awareness at church is a good thing.  However, not being able to defend yourself at church is not a good thing.  Why is the LDS church the only church in the entire state listed on the BCI website for places of worship off limits to concealed carriers?  I know all those Mormons own guns, preparing for the end times and such, but apparently church is one place they’re not worried about defending themselves.  I don’t know….. I’m just sayin’.

    We’ve held concealed carry classes at my church and I’m sure other churches in the valley have to.  Hunter’s Ed courses are even offered at churches around here.  In fact, my pastor found out that I carry and some time later had volunteered our building for a class that he, his son, and his son-in-law, among other members of our church have all attended.  Situational awareness was one of the things covered in that class too.  The pastor’s wife has commented that the safest place to be on Sunday mornings is at our church.  🙂

  • KCromm

    And, now that I know you are LDS, I no longer care to read your articles.

    • KCromm

      Permit me to be 100% clear: Mormonism *IS NOT* a Christian religion. I’m tired of everyone playing “politically correct” bent to not “offend”anyone.

      Jason, you need to be MORE scared of the truest “scary man”, that being the created being Lucifer, who is *NOT* the brother of the Lord and Savior Christ Jesus, but, again, a created being, being created by Christ Himself.

      No firearm in this world will protect your arms from the fires in the next world.  Period.

      • Anon

         Right…  the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints CAN’T be a “Christian” religion!  I mean, it’s not like every single doctrine the church ACTUALLY teaches is focused on CHRIST’S sacrifice for us!  It’s not like their fruits (“by their fruits ye shall know them”?) are works of service, civic duty, and christian living.  It’s not like Christ is so central to their church that his NAME is IN THEIR CHURCH’S NAME!!!  Grow up and pick on somebody else!

      • HebrewPackin’Heat

         What exactly constitutes a christian religion, sir?  If it requires that a religion teach people that Christ is the Way, the Truth, and the Light, and that no man may be saved but through His Grace, then Mormons are most certainly a part of that club.  If it requires that you live the teachings that are in the Bible, I’d say Mormons do it better than most.  If it requires acceptance of man-made creeds stating that God is “unknowable” and “three-in-one”, then Mormons definitely fail, but so do many other religions that you probably accept as “christian”.  Being a Jew myself, I don’t care who is “christian” and who isn’t, but it seems to me that you are spreading hate where Yeshua Ben-Yoshef (also called Yeshua Bar-Abbas, the Messiah, or Jesus Christ) specifically taught love and acceptance.  I am assuming that you claim to be “christian”.  So I ask, who among you is more christian?

        • KCromm

          HPH, shalom aleichem.

          Yes, Yeshua Ben-Yoshef “taught love and acceptance,” and He is also God.  The very same God you (should) know all to well which is also a very jealous and righteously angry God, showing His wrath very prominently in the Christian Old Testament *AND* New Testament (Revelation comes to bear in this aspect).

          To directly answer your question of “What exactly constitutes a christian religion, sir?”, nothing man-contrived does. Specifically, Mormons, of which I was once a Mormon,  thus, I do know their “doctrines”, do teach that Lucifer, the lead fallen Angel that became the Serpent in the Garden, is, in fact, the brother of Christ Jesus.Christ was not created. Lucifer was.  Lucifer is not the brother of Christ. Mormons also teach that all angels and humans are “brothers” to both Christ and Lucifer by distorting Christian and Jewish Scripture to fit their ever-changing doctrines.Mormons teach you can become your own god and start your own “solar system” with your own “earth” and you can then do your own version of “salvation”.

          The Book of Mormon has gone through more “changes” in the last 35 years than all other “religious” books since 1500 B.C. One of those changes was when it once proclaimed a black-skinned man’s skin would “become white as the pure driven snow”.  The then-Mormon “President” (the Mormon’s version of the Pope) had one of his “many revelations” and changed the text to “his sins will be come white as the pure driven snow.”  Convenient, ain’t it.Oh, and look at a picture of “Mormon Square” in Salt Lake City, UT.  Observe the statue of Joseph Smith.  His back is to the main Mormon Temple and his hand is stretched toward the church’s main Bank.Liars, murderers, homosexuals and the like will not be “accepted” into Heaven.  Mormons are true liars, claiming to be the “Christian” truth, but they are not.  They are wolves in sheep’s clothing.I will protect and come to the aid of anyone who is being physically accosted.  Most assuredly, I will more fervently come to the aid (so to speak) of someone when they are being spiritually accosted in lies purporting to be truth.  Lies which are from and of the Serpent himself.Do know this for certain, I am not one of the “gee, my fellow fallen man, your eternal life is in jeopardy”.  I cut to the quick with resounding firmness.Just like one can’t say to a zombie “gee, my fellow man, my life is in jeopardy and I need to get my magazine out of the trunk to then put in my firearm which I have here in my locked glove box, then we can continue our ‘encounter'”, I speak not in laudacious meandering to only then diminish the intensity of what is truly at stake: a person’s eternal life.As such is the purpose and intent of my posting.

      • Jim

        Why should anybody care of your opinion of LDS? As you’re already too self righteous to read anymore of Jason’s articles, simply be on your way.

    • Jim

       Goodbye.

  • sungloblu

    Water or electricity will flow to the path of least resistance.   Likewise, a criminal is going to choose the time and place of least anticipated resistance.  To assume that a criminal is going to respect the solemnity to of your spiritual worship is dangerously naive.

    While I hope never to need my weapon. I hope, even more, never to need it and not have it with me.  I carry wherever I legally can and avoid those locations where I cannot as much as is practical.

  • Diehl8923

    Jason, I have enjoyed your articles, and share them with my wife often. You have a great sense of humour.  It took me a long time to wake up to something I’ve heard all my life.  Our actions speak 
    louder than our words.  Or you can catch more flies with honey than you can with vinegar.  My apologies for the people who think they know when it is time to set everyone straight.
    A man convinced  against his will is of the same opinion still.  I may not agree with every ones theology but mine has changed a little over the years too.  For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)    Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:

  • rone

    Hello Jason:
    If you felt guilty enough to mention your point was not about being charitable, then why did you waste a hundred fifty words telling us it was about “you” being charitable? Do you enjoy stretching a 60 word story into a rambling disjointed piece of garbage? Your last couple of paragraphs had a story in them………………somewhere.

    You could better serve your readers,  with Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints rules as handed down by the Salt Lake City authority. The one that requires you to seek approval by a church official to carry concealed and the fact that simple notification by “any” church official to remove yourself and or your weapon from church property is a lawful request. Meaning, non compliance may be met with legal action if not arrest. 

    When writing, please try to forget about YOU, YOUR children, YOUR church and give us, the reader, something of use, a story that tracks. I would suggest using the aforementioned as tools of the writing trade but, your inability to remain detached from “YOU” and remain on point is sadly  apparent. 

    I would like to hear from other readers on this. If you folks like the drivel this guy is doping you with, I’ll remove myself from the equation and you can wallow in your ignorance. Otherwise I suggest Luke gets someone with a little snap.

  • Tony

    They all want bus money and they all have great stories.  Usually the place where they need to travel is a long distance, usually the next large city.  Not one of them has taken me up on my offer to drive them there.  Not that I would, but if they showed me ID proving that they lived in another city, I would take them to the bus depot and pay for their ticket.  Churches are easy targets for scammers
    and traveling criminals and they hit as many churches as possible when they pass through a town. .

    •  Got to where in our town we set up with the local homeless outreach to distribute money to the needy. All were sent to that office to be screened.

  • Jason, very good article.  We need to be diligent and keep our eyes open.  We all know how to watch out for the “scary” guy, but we need to watch out for the “normal” looking guys.

    side note.  Please people, keep your personal political and religious views out of these comments, nobody cares.  What you saw isn’t going to change anyones politcal or religious views, you are just a distraction.  Yes I am a Republican and Christian, but I don’t judge those that are not of the Christian faith, we are all God’s children and I pray hard.

    Jason, still really like your writing, keep it up.

  • Ron

    Jason, In 2004 I was homeless and living in a shelter. One of the other homeless guys was a severely disabled Viet Nam Vet we all called Tex. One day as a whole group of us were waiting outside the shelter for the day shelter to open a couple guys approached Tex. I wasn’t close enough to hear them but Tex and the two guys were allowed insode the shelter before it opened and something looked suspicious to me. I insisted that I be allowed to accompany Tex into the building  Tex and one of the guys had gone into the restroom, and the other guywaited by the corner of the passageway between the restroom door and the outside door.

    I was suspicious when I saw the 2 guys approach Tex outside  because they used that old buddy buddy routine to approach him. All smiles and pats on the back; hey man got a cigarette bs. Tex was almost blind but didn’t act as if he recognized them, theough we found out later these were the same two guys who had robbed him 2 days before. Those of us who knew him knew when he was confused. Tex was confused and tried to get away from the 2 guys by knocking on the shelter door and asking to use the restroom. The 2 guys then also said they said they had to use the restroom…after Tex said he had to use it. That is what made me suspicious. For some reason they wanted to stay with Tex.

    The shelter manager allowed me in after I pushed her aside and said I need to keep an eye on Tex. As it turned out, after Tex and one of the guys went into the restroom, I went in and kncoked on the stall door and asked Tex if he was ok and he said he was. As I was about to leave the other guy came around the corner from the showers and I challenged him about being in an off limits area during the day. He said he had gotten sick and had to lie on a bench. I didnt believe him but I got a good look at him. Then I left and just before i went out the door I tild Tex I would wait for him.

    I sat at a table between the second guy and the restroom door and within 30 seconds I heard a loud bang and heard Tex yell out.

    The second guy started for the restroom door but i told him to gtfo. When I got into the restroom, the first guy had kicked open Tex’s stall door and had Tex on the floor between the wall and the toilet. Tex had gone into an end stall.

    (Safety Point: choose a stall with a stall on either side…both stall walls have a space underneath but a concrete wall does not.)

    I pushed the stall door open and saw the guy standing over Tex and I also saw a 4-5″ folding Buck knife in is hand. After convincing him to give me the knife…I jumped on his back and dhoved his head into the stool and then grabbed his wrist and tried to break it by pressing his wrist against the rim of the stool. He finally gave me the knife after I got control of his knife hand. At that time I told Tex to get the H out of there and he said that was what he was trying to do. I felt Tex slide out between our legs and when I heard toe door open and close I let the guy get up and go out of the stall past me. I held the knife so that if he tried to strike or resist I could slash him in a vital area, but I let him go.

    Some women who were in the upstairs womens section saw the man leave the building through the back door and gave the police a good description.They asked me for a description and all I could say is that what I saw was me slicing the man;s throat for hurting my friend. I remembered minor details but the woman from upstairs had seen him many times before so she could give a good description.

    He and his cohort were apprehended 2-3 blocks away. The one whom I took the knife from served 3 years for various felonies.. The other guy was not charged.

    Tex was moved out of state and was placed in a convalescent center. He died 6 months later, but not until afer he helped to put the guy in prison.

    My advice is keep your eyes open; believe that “it” can happen to you or a friend; be ready and willing to use any force necessary, if necessary, but protect yourself first. If all that is available is a toilet tank cover, do not be afraid to break someone’s skull to protect someone else or yourself.

    Violence can happen anywhere; in a shelter, in a church or on the street.

  • beleiver

    Biggest problem I see is that some states, like TEXAS, do not allow CCW in church. Being from NM where I can carry in church, I certainly feel ill at ease when and defenseless when attending a church in Texas.

    • rone

      Again, your misinformed!  The law in TX. reads, you cannot possess a weapon in a place of worship without a church officials permission. A CHL holder does not need permission unless the church official verbally prohibits or if Penal Code 30.06 is posted which, is the statute prohibiting possession of a firearm beyond that point.

  • Markmarilyn5

    I am a pastor of a small church in rural kansas.  The majority of the time that I am in the church building I am alone.  During most of the time that I am in the church building alone I carry a concealed .380.  During the nearly 8 years that I have been a pastor there have been about 3 occasions when I have met a stranger at church that has caused me some concern.  The targeting of church pastors in various killings that have occurred over the past few years is a reason for pastors to start carrying concealed weapons if they are allowed to by state law.  I know God is able to protect me, but He may also wish me to be prepared.

  • Bill

    I received permission from my pastor to ccw in church. A off dutty deputy said that I needed written permission from the pastor and have the letter with me at all times. He said that he could arest me. What is your take on that?

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