My recent article about the George Zimmerman verdict elicited a lot of feedback… some people agreeing with me and others disagreeing.
And since this case has already been talked about so much, I’ve decided to comment one final time about it to answer one gentleman’s question. In short, this gentleman sent me an email asking me the following…
“If you were being followed late at night, what would you do? Would you run? Would you confront the person stalking you?”
I thought this was a great question, and anyone who has taken my concealed carry training knows that my wife and I were followed in Baltimore City once. What I did in that situation was verbally confront the person (in a polite manner and with a polite tone of voice.)
In another instance, I was jogging in the early morning and two large gentleman were on the same path as me dressed in street clothes (not in running attire.) As I got closer to them they looked at each other and then spread apart to force me in between them and I simply ran to the side away from them.
My point is, if I was being followed late at night I would run if I could, but if the person was too close to me I would confront them. But I wouldn’t attack them, I wouldn’t physically touch them… I would simply ask them a question such as, “can I help you” or “do you need something” or something along those lines.
In other words, I would do what any one of us would likely do.
You see, the problem with the George Zimmerman incident was that it was a “perfect storm.” You had a wanna-be cop who did something stupid by getting out of his car that night. The thing is, and what people don’t seem to understand, is that even though what he did was stupid, it wasn’t illegal.
And when this wanna-be cop followed Trayvon Martin, he didn’t know he was following a person with a history of violence. The fact is, if George Zimmerman had followed 99 other people that night he might have got cussed out or they might have run from him. But he followed the 1 person in 100 who decided to attack him and try and beat the living daylights out of him.
So if I was Trayvon Martin that night I would have run if I could, or I would have verbally confronted George Zimmerman but I wouldn’t have attacked him unless he attacked me first, and from the evidence brought out during the trial that’s not what appears to have happened.
The truth is, I think it’s frightening that America is having such trouble with this verdict when it’s obvious George Zimmerman did something stupid (but not illegal), and doing something stupid doesn’t give someone the right to attack you. It is the same as if I was stupid enough to walk down a dark alley at 3am, that doesn’t give three guys the right to come out of the shadows and try and kill me.
So what would you have done if you were Trayvon Martin in that situation or what will you do if you find yourself being followed one day?
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Florida’s and other states SYG law as well as plain ol’ self defense laws say you have the right to defend yourself. Bottom line is Trayvon would still be alive had he not attacked Zimmerman. Get over it. Move on. Until there is a law that says you cannot follow someone down the street, it may be a tragedy, stupid move or whatever you want to call it but IT’S OVER. Let it go.
You’re absolutely correct! Still, obviously following someone at night is kind of a provocative act. Doesn’t give the person being followed the right to attack, though
it should make them start considering their options ie ‘fight or flight’.
Don’t misunderstand me. I believe Trayvon was dead wrong and got what he deserved. Sad situation all around.
The race pimps need to make a living also! Al Gore invented the internet, Sharpton invented racism.
No, Sharpton MASTERED racism, along with Jesse ‘ smear MLK blood on self to steal MLK mantle’ Jackson.
Do a search online of Trayvons purchase, and his facebook page, and you find enough evidence of Trayvons CHARACTER.
Now search ‘MLK and CHARACTER’- what does THAT getcha ?
I rest my case, racism is a tool of Profiteers, and an excuse of Idiots.
if Zimmermna approached Martin then Martin had SYG on his side and there is a law against following someone for no reason, it’s called stalking.:784.048 Stalking; definitions; penalties.—(1) As used in this section, the term:
(a) “Harass”
means to engage in a course of conduct directed at a specific person
which causes substantial emotional distress to that person and serves no
legitimate purpose.
(b) “Course
of conduct” means a pattern of conduct composed of a series of acts
over a period of time, however short, which evidences a continuity of
purpose. The term does not include constitutionally protected activity
such as picketing or other organized protests.
(c) “Credible
threat” means a verbal or nonverbal threat, or a combination of the
two, including threats delivered by electronic communication or implied
by a pattern of conduct, which places the person who is the target of
the threat in reasonable fear for his or her safety or the safety of his
or her family members or individuals closely associated with the
person, and which is made with the apparent ability to carry out the
threat to cause such harm. It is not necessary to prove that the person
making the threat had the intent to actually carry out the threat. The
present incarceration of the person making the threat is not a bar to
prosecution under this section. nice try though!
Martin might have had SYG on his side but Zimmerman had SIG.
In my experience, I would have done a few things differently…
1- call the police on my cell phone
2- walked quickly towards a street or well lighted area
3- politely spoke to the follower(s)
Initiating an attack is wrong on many level.
And thats what got him killed,,, there was no reason for him to turn back, should have just kept going.
He should of not tried being the thug he was.
The whole episode is a result of the liberal media exploiting a sad situation. How many gun related deaths occurred just during the trial? I have seen the count at 13 just in Chicago alone and we heard nothing about these. As long as “we the people” fall prey to the media we will continue to suffer the attacks of the liberal plan to disarm our country, then where will we be. I am a concealed Carry Instructor in North Carolina and I can say Zimmerman probably would have been convicted here. He had no reason to approach Martin. He should have called the police if his reason was “neighborhood security”.. That does not change any of my position on Concealed Carry. We need the Second Amendment period..
You lost me, as per the evidence, GZ did NOT approach TM it was the opposite and GZ was ON the phone with police as he was keeping sight of TM, so with all due respect if you instruct CC rules and regs, I do hope that you teach the facts correctly because you are way off track and clueless to the facts of this issue.
Nailed it….thank you…… and like you said…. you would do what “any one of us would likely do”…evade…. not attack, that was Mr Martin’s fatal mistake.
I would’ve left a trail of skittles in a different direction than where I was going. It looks like George would rather have followed that instead.
But seriously, I agree with the article and comments posted by mongo and Fred (point 1 & 2) with exception to point 3 in that I would not have been so polite. Not that I would have been rude or confrontational, but just more dominant and assertive.
I agree with most of what everyone says re: the state did not prove it’s case. But many seem to take Zimmerman’s account as being totally accurate without question. There were inconsistencies in his story – but for me the main one is having his head slammed into the concrete many times (25?) by a larger and stronger person. I would think the head trauma would have been very severe, with lots of swelling and lumps – not just a couple of minor cuts. Not to mention that he was never brought to the hospital for a CT scan – WHY????? Head injuries are a BIG deal and bleeding on the brain might not show up right away – he should have been brought to the hospital.immediately! I think he embellished the head slamming story and that casts doubt in my mind as to validity of his other statements. What else did he embellish?
Martin was acting like the typical black thug and deserved surveillance.
“typical thug” would have been an adequate comment.
nothing wrong with it either
fishman has been conditioned by the media to phrase it that way. Given the locale and conditions, it wasn’t entirely out of place. Trayvon had the advantage of environment.
And here is the crux of the problem which is why people like you shouldn’t be allowed to carry concealed. Obvious racial biasness
Being truely a racist–or bigot of any type-does not forfeight one’s Second Amendment rights nor does it, or should it, disqualify a person for concealed carry.
Not true, not all thugs are black. Not all blacks are thug. It was a distinguishing characteristic. IMO.
NO ONE SAW WHO THROUGH THE FIRST PUNCH. That’s only George’s word and frankly, I don’t believe a damn thing he says! BOTTOM LINE IS HE STALKED AND MURDERED THIS KID! THE STATE DIDN’T PROVE IT’S CASE SO HE GOT AWAY WITH IT! BUT JUST SAYING “GET OVER IT” IS BULL SHIT! HE IS LIVING PROOF THAT SOME PEOPLE SHOULDN’T BE ALLOWED TO CARRY! AND YES THIS IS COMING FROM SOMEONE WHO LEGALLY CARRIES A FIRE ARM!
You obviously don’t know the law and as someone who “LEGALLY CARRIES”, that’s troubling.
Just for the sake of clarity, how exactly would you and your infinite wisdom have disqualified GZ from legally carrying a gun?
The state didn’t prove it’s case because there was no evidence to support it. I would be interested in the shocking new evidence that you must be withholding from the public that supports your ridiculous statement. The real “bottom line” is that, based on the laws of that state, GZ should have never even been charged. His head was being dribbled off of the pavement like a basketball and he defended himself from being killed. My advice to you would be to join Stevie Wonder and all of the morons that have jumped on his band wagon. Please, boycott FL. and all other states with the SYG laws. Maybe they will get back to being nice places to visit.
GZ IS A CHICKEN SHIT CHILD MURDERER WHOSE ONLY SOURCE OF BRAVERY IS IN HIS HANDGUN! IF STEVIE WONDER OR ANYONE ELSE WANTS TO BOYCOTT FLORIDA, THAT’S HIS RIGHT! YOU CAN STICK YOUR SUGGESTIONS FOR ME UP YOUR ASS! I GO WHERE THE HELL I WANT! JUST MY OPINION.
“You see, the problem with the George Zimmerman incident was that it was a “perfect storm.” A perfect description of the event.
And what none of know and likely never will is this: Who began the
initial confrontation? In a sense it would depend on what a court of law
might find as initiation of conflict. Was it when GZ made eye contact
with TM while he was in his vehicle and on the phone? It’s quite
probable that TM knew GZ was following him at that point (some might
call it stalking). GZ had a flashlight, I imagine he was using it while
searching for TM. So you’re a guy who feels he is being followed who now
spots a guy with a flashlight on foot that seems to be following you.
Are you going to lead him to your place of residence, or try and throw
him off your trail? You see, most people think this is such a cut n’ dry
case, but you need to step out of the box and look at all the angles.
The truth of the matter is, only one side of the story has been told and
that shall be how it ends.
I’d call 911 and keep my distance. But when you have been doing criminal things like casing the neighborhood or looking for women and girls, you’re not likely to “call the Man.”
The photos shown in court, show GZ head was covered with welts on both sides, his mouth was bloody and his nose was bleeding and the back of his head had several bleeding wounds. Does anybody think he did that to himself?
What a great article. Why are you not on the talk shows and news reports with this advice? Radicals love to stir the fire and his parents want the lime light for them selves. Not wanting to help find an answer to the thug mentality. Rather wants the honest citizens to run or beg for their lives.
The news reports are the worst place to look for facts, reason, and logic, and most talk shows aggressively suppress voices of reason.
If I was trayvon I would have done the same thing. But I am not. I would not have been looking in car and house windows. I would not be accumulating the ingredients for some bomb ass lean. So I would not havebeen followed by neighborhood watch. Finally if I was being followed for some reason, when I got inside, I would call the police, grab my rifle and keep watch.
The key is the missing 4 minutes. There were 4 minutes between phone calls to Trayvon’s girl friend. She told him to run home in the first. Trayvon had time to get back to where he was staying instead of attacking Zimmerman. Four little minutes would have made a world of difference.
If I were a betting man, and I am, the GF ‘egged’ TM to go back and give the puny “creepy assed cracker” some WHOOP-ASS!!! as she so eloquently puts it on Piers Morgans Interview… If she did, (and I will forever believe she did) I hope it torments her for the rest of her natural life. To me, that would explain the missing 4 minutes and the reason she was so reluctant to go onto the witness stand. She must have thought “they” had evidence that would implicate her…
The problem is that we don’t know if Zimmerman first attacked Trayvon forcing Trayvon to defend himself. We don’t know for sure nor is the evidence convincing in this matter. What would you do if you were PHYSICALLY confronted by a Zimmerman, especially as a defenseless teenager?
If I was a 5’11”- former athlete and I was followed or even confronted by a husky 5’8″ guy. I would have outran his ass back to my house. Or kept my distance and questioned him on what his problem was. Or as someone else mentioned run to a well lit area and called the cops. Only Zimmerman knows what exactly went down. Evidence seems to point to a physical escalation initiated by the followee not the follower. Two bad decisions, one loss of lifestyle another a tragic loss of a young life.
What set of evidence did you see?
The only marks on Trayvon was the bullet hole and powder burns. George Zimmerman did not break his own noes, make his mouth bloody or smack the sides of his head raising many welts and he did not bash his own head into the ground/sidewalk. Only if you listened to the NBC edited tapes do people think GZ did wrong.
Are you sure Jim? Maybe he had someone beat the crap out of him like in that Dirty Harry movie. Maybe someone in SPD gave a hand. There is something wrong with you if you think that it is OK that an unarmed teenager was killed in this situation.
There a law called stalking but how long do you have to be watching, following, snooping to be under that category? Yes, G.Z. was told to stay in his car but he was also concerned about the neighbor that had a history of problems and he was willing to go watch this person just to make sure he could prevent more crime. This one event is just being used to try to get at gun owner, and we all know it. There are local shootings all across American, black on black, white on white, etc and you do not hear one national news report…because the news now days is entertainment. Like Hurricane Sandy….2 weeks, no more news. Why? Because its old news. Move on but there were still people suffering down there. We have got to stand up to Obama, Washington, the news media or anyone that is helping to take our 2nd Amendment away.
Zimmerman was NOT told to stay in his car. He was told, as he was following Martin, that he didn’t have to do that, so he returned to his car and let down his guard, unfortunately.
Thank you. And if I understand correctly, the dispatcher is not a police officer and can not order you to do anything. In fact, the dispatcher will always dissuade you from any risky action as to avoid liability on their part. This dispatcher did their job.
GZ was out of his truck and hundreds of feet away when the operator asked if he was following the suspicious person. When he said Yes, the operator said, “we don’t need you to do that.”
Zimmerman never made it back to his truck, Trayvon attacked him before he got there.
Good article, but I would imagine that trayvon was not the sharpest tool
In the shed and given his history of violence, drug use etc, he was not smart enough to make a good decision so as a result he died because he stupidly attacked someone, and as we all have the right to defend ourselves, shit happened. Not that I think George was completely in the right, and a bit over zealous possibly, but as it happened it happened. Too bad the martins lost their child this way, but personally I believe they lost their child long ago and really was not aware of it.
Where have I heard this charge before, that the person “acted stupidly”?… Ah, yes, now I remember. That was President Obama referencing not, as you say, “a wanna-be cop,” but an actual police officer. The arrogance of that statement was widely derided at the time. I’m a little surprised that none of the comments here deride your similar assessment of Zimmerman’s actions.
I disagree that Zimmerman getting out of his vehicle to follow Martin at a distance was a stupid act. Losing track of where he was and not maintaining enough situational awareness to prevent being blindsided by a larger, stronger attacker was where Zimmerman made a mistake. But it wasn’t Zimmerman’s actions that cost Martin’s life. That is wholly on Martin. You said, ‘I wouldn’t attack them, I wouldn’t physically touch them… I would simply ask them a question such as, “can I help you” or “do you need something” or something along those lines.’ How does that differ from Zimmerman’s description of the events leading up to the attack? According to his statements, Zimmerman didn’t attack or even confront Martin, and the jury agreed or they could not have acquitted based on self-defense. Martin confronted Zimmerman, asked him “what’s your problem?” – so far so good – then when Zimmerman said he had no problem, Martin punched him in the face, broke his nose, knocked him to the ground, and beat his head against the sidewalk.
All that, and the government and political assault that followed, could have been avoided several ways. Yes, he could have stayed in the vehicle as you suggest, but that would have meant not being able to keep track of where the “person acting suspiciously” had gone in the neighborhood that had been subject to several burglaries. He instead chose to be a responsible citizen and do what he could to assist the investigation until the police arrived. Was he following Martin too closely? Obviously not, or Martin could never have gotten the drop on Zimmerman and sucker punched him.
What I would certainly NOT do if I were being followed is lose the follower (in this case, pretty easy to do after Zimmerman quit following Martin when the dispatcher told him he didn’t need to “do that”), sneak up on him, attack him first verbally then physically, and cause him to have a reasonable and honest belief that he was currently suffering grave bodily harm, possibly leading to his own death if he didn’t take immediate action.
J.D. Smith doesn’t believe what Zimmerman said, but he wasn’t in the court room. The jury did believe Zimmerman. So did the police and the original prosecutor. Only the state attorney, pushed by the race agitation industry, decided to ignore the professionals who investigated the situation, skip the grand jury process, and decide to prosecute with no evidence.
I disagree, fishman – although we don’t have conclusive proof of what happened, we do know for sure the jury found that Zimmerman was not the attacker but the victim of the attack or they could not have come to a “not guilty” verdict, especially with at least two of the jurors now coming out saying they looked for a way to convict Zimmerman of something, but law and prosecution’s case did not give them a way to do so.
Well said my brother, well said, It is also a shame that most of the clueless take fact from media reports and get baited by the racist bitches like sharpton and the rest of racial pie hole blabbers. I appreciate your comment.
You are secretly gay, right? I thought so. Bet you wouldn’t mind some strapping black guy following up your dark alley, huh?
john, Is there a serious point or response in there somewhere or are do you just take every opportunity you can to publicly compete for idiot of the year even though there’s no prize?
I am not sure if “are do you” or not a serious point in here…maybe thats your problem, right? You take yourself to serious. Ever been in a war, dude? Well, if you have, it’s over and over there now, not here. I know you are scared shitless and everything, and probably got your ass kicked your whole life and now can have a credit card and thus a pistol, but we (normal, sane people, who are still a slight majority in this country) don’t want to play “guns” with you. And by the way, is this the kind of comeback you would give someone in real life? Call them idiot of the year? Gotta work on that rapier wit…
Relax, laugh a little. Nobody is gonna shoot at you, kid. No one is going to invade your house in the middle of the night. That’s a good thing, remember that.
Just ignore the trolling grammar nazi as he obviously has homophobic issues.
A well thought out comment Mark, thanks.
I agree with you, Mark. It’s easy to second-guess Zimmerman’s actions after the fact, and say he did something stupid. How many times are there similar situations that don’t end up this way, that we never hear about? Given the same situation (living in a community with multiple robberies, strangers wandering through the neighborhood, etc.), how many of us might just go up to a person and say, “Are you lost? Can I help you find something/someone?” just to determine if the person’s acting reasonably or may be casing the joint.
From my own perspective, I see kids walking through an open (but private property) area near my house. I virtually always tell them it’s private property and against the law; so far, I haven’t been attacked. Are my actions stupid? I guess we’ll only find out when something bad happens, but only after armchair quarterbacking.
There were just too many “grey” areas in this incident. My largest complaint is the sensationalism and media pounding this incident brought forth. During the same time frame a similar incident occurred in NY no less. Four teenagers were acting up outside someone’s home. After being verbally engaged one teenager, UNARMED, approached the homeowner in the driveway. The homeowner without any physical confrontation shot and killed the teenager. No media maelstrom during the trial and no outrage after the not guilty verdict. The question asked so often, “What would have happened if Travon was white?” Well the same thing. “Homeowner”, black, found not guilty of killing white teenager. Was there a difference? Yes, either the media didn’t care or it did not serve there divisive agenda.
Please check some more of the facts (not the distorted fantasy that the media has dumped).
TM did run and GZ was in his car when he reported that in the recorded call to the police. 4 minutes later, per the neighbor’s 911 call, the shot was fired. The 17 year should have been able to easily run the 400 yards to his dad’s fiancé’s house in those 4 minutes. He did not do that though.
Oh wait, I think I misread your comment. Sorry!
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In my opinion it was a intentional murder, stalking and profiling a young black man, he has no business carrying a firearm and a menace to society, but his punishment is his conscious mind and it will stalk him to judgement day and that when he will get his justice when he meet his maker Satan.
March 26…… Sanford Fla. Julious Bender, Yahaziel Israel
2009…. Roderick Scott vs Christopher Cervini
How did we manage to be so blessed as to have someone like you among us? All seeing, all knowing, and all full of…judgement.
Jason I could not agree more. The people that WANT to see it as all out murder had their minds made up before knowing any details or the verdict they just saw it as “race” as the media portrayed it. Yes Zimmerman was stupid. Had he set out to murder Trayvon one would assume he would have done it before he got his skull bashed. Come on, even Hernandez knows not to wait until they fight (allegedly).
Right. Trayvon was a moron. They found THC in his system. Was probably stoned. And why DIDN’T he call 911? Shit, if I was being confronted by someone I didn’t know, I would call 911….
Don’t blame THC. Trayvon used his Sizzup, and was probably as agitated as the bath crystal using marine at the gas station, yelling, behaving threateningly, already agitated…THC is getting unfair attention in all this. Trayvon was pumped and primed for a fight. It’s called ‘over reaction’.
Being high does not make you violent. THC means the kid was smoking pot…been a round a few years and have never seen a person who smokes weed doing anything violent except maybe attacking a bag of cheeto’s.
Jason,
Excellent, well thought out, level headed writings on both articles in this “series.” It is comforting to know that there are still people that look at “facts” and can ignore their own emotion on this touchy subject. Keep up the good work.
Hey Jason:
I like to read your blog, but I am having trouble with your
assessment of the situation that occurred with Travon Martin and George
Zimmerman.
You make assertions as if you were there and saw everything
that happened and I find that troubling coming from anyone!
For all we know Zimmerman had his gun drawn before any
physical altercation with Martin took place.
You gain more credibility with folks like me if you leave
your biases and opinions out of your commentary.
Your statement “But he followed the 1 person in 100 who
decided to attack him and try and beat the living daylights out of him” is
nothing but speculation, because you were not there, that is just what you want
to think occurred. In my opinion these kind of assertions are dangerous and
undermines your credibility.
I live In Illinois, (am over 50 and am a white male). We
finally have a Concealed Carry law which just passed in this state; the very
last state in the Union to pass such a law. This incident that has so many speaking
as if they were there in person, as unimpeachable witnesses, with the right to
be the judge, and the jury with these type of unsubstantiated versions of what
actually occurred are what makes so many vote against the right for Concealed
Carry and in my opinion jeopardize that right being taken away from those of us in the future; those of us who are going to be responsible and not “stupid”.
Those who pass judgment as if they were actually there and knew exactly what really happened make me angry because I want that right to carry a weapon on me legally.
I worry that more “stupid” is going to happen and jeopardize the right to legally carry a
concealed weapon.
There needs to be a very high standard set for any and all
of us who want to have the right and the corresponding responsibility that goes
along with being granted a Concealed Carry Permit.
This verdict is a verdict that makes “stupid” an okay defense for the Concealed Carry community and at the end of the day that hurts our ability to maintain this right I want to be able to maintain.
There should be some punishment for Zimmerman to not follow
the directives he was given by the Police when he called in the suspicious
character he perceived Martin to be; specifically because he was carrying a weapon!
That is the type of standard that I believe anyone with a Concealed Carry permit has to be held up to, or else this right will be taken away from us.
“Stupid” cost a young man his life unnecessarily
and there ought to be consequences for that if one wants the right to be
granted a conceal carry permit!
I worry about what will happen going forward, with individuals who have concealed carry permits, now thinking it’s okay to act irresponsibly, as I believe George Zimmerman did.
Mike, you are applying the biased assumptions and lies that have the ignorant masses enraged. Don’t let the media spoonfeed you, learn the facts.
Use logic, and the evidence, as Jason did.
I thought the assessment in the article was fair and made sense. I personally ask questions when there are strangers in my gated neighbourhood. That in my opinion is being a good Neighbor and keeping your area safe. I also am a conceal carry
Since there were no witnesses, the only story we know is what Zimmerman said. We will probably never know the real truth if it was different from what Zimmerman said. The facts show that he had to catch up to Martin to create a confrontation regardless of who threw the first blow. Martin’s mistake may have been to try to stand his ground when his girlfriend he was talking to on his cell phone told him to run. Since Martin had family living in the area that he had visited, he had as much right to be there as Zimmerman. That’s just another scenario. They both made some stupid mistakes which cost a person their life.
No, Martin caught up with GZ to create a confrontation. GZ was on his way back to his truck to wait for the police.
How do you know that? Zimmerman may have said that in a statement, but since he didn’t take the stand, nobody would be able to force the truth out of him. That could be why his lawyer advised him not to testify in court. Only Zimmerman knows the real truth, and he isn’t talking. He may be telling the truth in this case, but past comments cast doubt on his credibility. We could go on and on forever and never come to a solid conclusion. We can all believe what we want and get over it. Zimmerman still has a long way to go yet with other possible charges (which I doubt will materialize) and a wrongful death suit which other powers may push Martins family into filing whether they really want to or not. lawyers love this kind of stuff.
The Feds won’t bring civil rights charges.. Even less evidence for civil rights violations then Florida had for this case..
As far as a wrongful death suit, good luck in Fla.. Why do you think OJ Simpson moved to Fla ? Liability protection is the greatest in Fla, more then ny US state. Can’t take his house !
As far as who followed whom, evidence was clear as to where the confrontation took place.
I meant to reply to your original article. I would have been one of the responders in great disagreement with you. You had it completely wrong. GZ didn’t make one stupid mistake he made several. Mistake one if you are going to follow someone to the point of provoking them to proactively defend themselves, pick someone you can beat. Next mistake was getting out of the car/truck. Why the heck did he do that if not to start something. Number one rule of the street, do start nothing won’t be nothing. Finally, no having enough self defense skills to ward off a teenager and a small one at that.
Yes, Trayvon should have ran. What we don’t know is what GZ might have said, yelled or spewed at him to get him to stay and find. Excuse it was obvious, he went out on patrol looki g to cause trou le.
Trayvon Martin had a legal right to be where he was. Zimmerman was the armed aggressor. We have only Zimmerman’s word that he was attacked, along with some very minor injuries, which could self-inflicted (and note – there was no Zimmerman DNA under Martin’s fingernails, or on his hands WTF?). If Martin was street-wise, and they say he was, he knew that if this person was out to get him that he would shoot him if he ran. His best course, particularly since he was an experienced fighter, was to stand his ground. Trayvon Martin died attempting to stand his ground, armed only with iced tea and some Skittles.
Standing his ground is what got Martin killed – you also do realize that Stand Your Ground was not the defense used don’t you? Also since Martin was so street wise don’t you think it is possible that he was able to avoid getting Zimmerman’s DNA under his finger nails? This was an open and shut case from the start. Too bad the national media needed to get involved.
I read this in another article and had to go find it to copy andrepost it here I hope the OP doesnt mind !!! … here it is ”
“Liberals and black militants have done more to destroy the black population than any white supremacist group could ever dream to do. If Zimmerman were black, no one would have cared if he shot Trayvon in self defense or if Zimmerman shot him over an IPhone”
So true it hurts! don’t it?.
You are wrong. I never see you at the many marches that are held on what the media likes to say on black on black crime. What people in there right mind would promote the slaughter of there own people. Your quote leads me to believe that you don’t know American history let alone black history. I suggest that you read a book titled 100 years lynching and then say what liberals and black militants have done. You might also want to do Google search a see what the singer was talking about when she said those trees have strange fruit.
Those “minor” Injuries included a broken nose, in NJ, that’s classified as Aggravated Assault, a Felony..
Please edify me as to when and how GZ could have inflicted a Broken nose onto himself in that time frame..
And if you didn’t know or choose to ignore it, Samford Police did not protect TM’s hands properly after it became a crime scene, He was basically left in the rain.
The only eyewitness testified tht TM was on top of GZ reigning blows on him.. But let’s just ignore any facts and make assumptions..
I pretty much agree with you. If Trayvon’s PARENTS had raised him properly the situation might have gone something like this: Trayvon, noticing he’s being followed by ONE man stops, turns to face Zimmerman and waits. Zimmerman approaches and Trayvon says “You need something?” Zimmerman says “I’m on ‘neighborhood watch’ and I don’t know you. Why are you here?” Trayvon says ” I’m visiting my Father and his Girlfriend over there in # xxx”.
Zimmerman: “Cool dude. Have a good visit” AND, they go their separate ways…
If I were Travon I would have dialed 911 as Zimmerman did and get police on the scene to protect me. Travon sought the confrontation rather than try to avoid it. 911 is not just for some people, it is for all people to use for a form of protection. The young man just made a fatal mistake of confronting Zimmerman and then attacking him. Yes Zimmerman was told by 911 operator to remain in his vehicle and he should have but like said his getting out of his vehicle broke no laws. ……….JMHO
Wise advice. I was pulling into a station to get gas when a man in another car started blowing his horn and yelling at me. I thought he was too far away to be waiting for a pump, but his car was out of gas and he was chugging slowly to get some. I apologized, pulled to another unit, started pumping and said nothing else until I was done. He made it to his, got out and kept cursing at me. I was carrying concealed. He was clothed in digital camo uniform, obviously stationed at a nearby army base. He walked back and forth behind my car, still cursing, noticed the county printed on my auto license plate and yelled if I was from that county it was no wonder I was such a stupid SOB. I had no intention of escalating the confrontation, only wanting to get away safely. He kept cursing until I drove off. I didn’t report to the police. I thought it would only make me a greater target. I was glad I was legally carrying to protect myself had things gotten out of hand. Many astonished customers witnessed the event. Some were laughing. I thought to myself if he doesn’t hurt someone first, he’ll be taken out eventually. It made me wonder why anyone in their right mind would be so confrontational and potentially violent to a complete stranger.
Honestly, it’s very hard to live in someone else’s shoes or to know what they were thinking. For one thing, I”m white and he was black. But I’m also aware that there are stereotypes in this country and to a white person, seeing a black kid in hooded jacket walking down a neighborhood street would trigger a negative impact on most whites. Just like in other races, they have predisposed ideas about others when they see certain images. For example, a white guy with longer hair in an old pick up truck with deer antler sticker on the back window would lead some to say “redneck”.
Living in an environment, like some young black men, where you feel as though you are always being looked at suspiciously can have an effect on how you see the world, or how you see some white guy following you. Add to that, I have heard his parents were divorced and he was kicked out of school for drugs and stealing and you have a young man who is already having a bad day and may be feeling the world is closing in around him.
I’m not trying to say what Trayvon did was justified…it was not. But the only way to know what was going on in his head would have been to have lived his life. No Zimmerman may not have broken any law. But in my gun training, I have always been taught that only deadly force justifies deadly force. A good ass beating does not qualify as deadly force in my opinion. You are taught to retreat and ONLY use your weapon if you are faced with a like deadly weapon.
My question is…had Zimmerman not had a weapon on him, would he have felt so brazened to have followed Treyvon or even gotten out of his truck. I think not.
This whole incident is a tragedy all the way around.
Thank you for being honest and at least looking at the situation through eye’s and shoes of the other guy.
Do you not know that many more people are beaten to death than killed with firearms? At what point during a beating is a person to realize they may not come out of it alive and so justify using lethal force to make it stop?
I’m not sure what happened to my original reply…
What you are saying is not true. It is totally false. Please check your facts. I do.
According to the latest FBI report which I posted in my original reply and which is available online if you search the FBI website…more than 10 times more people die from gunshot woulds than from beatings.
Gunshot: 67.5%
Beating: 5.7%
I’m a gun advocate and a CCW permit holder but one thing I can’t stand is when either side post untruths. It just makes our job tougher when trying to defend our 2nd Amendment rights.
you’re distorting “facts”. you are proffering ALL gunshots. defensive, from cops, suicicde ect… be honest.
I don’t think in the midst of the beating that Zimmerman intended to kill Trayvon, as to get out from under him, and regain control of the out of control situation. Trayvon broadsided Zimmerman, and began raining haymakers on him. YOU try to aim in the midst of that confusion. Trayvon was pumped up and agitated as it was.
Finally, someone really looking at this situation and being truthful.
you keep living your life that way wbarrettpowell. the moment i THINK i’m going to get an ass whippin, i pop the top.
He, Zimmerman, also lied to Martin when asked why he was following him. Something like, “hey, just part of the neighborhood watch & making sure everyone is safe & we don’t have people who don’t belong here in our neighborhood. You do live here, right? Well good, were close to your place already! Glad your getting home safe tonight!” But instead Zimmerman lied and his lie was so blatant that it left Martin defensive.
Don’t take this as meaning I’m on Martins side. They both made mistakes. And if Zimmerman learned to defend himself or carried a less than lethal option as well as a gun, Martin might have lived. And if Martin did live, HE would’ve been arrested for felony assault.
I was visiting New Orleans many years ago with my wife and another couple. We decided to take a stroll along the side streets in the French quarter. I noticed two men stalking us. Knowing the flagrant crime element in that city I told my wife and friends to walk fast around the corner and head back to the main strip. I walked across the street and stood in the shadows of a tree, placed my hand into my sport jacket as if I was armed. I pretended to ignore yet glance in the direction of these two would be robbers. I guess not wanting to take on an “armed victim” they quietly skulked away. Did I take a chance calling a bluff. Yes. But it was better than anyone of us getting killed.
You are a grown man not a child and you know as well as I that adults think differently than children. Yes, maybe Zimmerman was legal in his actions but his stupidity cost the life of a young man. Maybe if he had thought like an adult rather than a wanna-be cop and not followed Trayvon he would be alive today. In my eyes Zimmerman is guilty not only for being stupid but also for shooting and killing that child. And those soft words “can I help you” or “do you need something” or something along those lines don’t always work.
Does anyone have proof of Martins “history of violence? sure he may have bragged about fighting some kid on twitter (many 17 year old get in to fights or even lie about them but gold teeth and a pic holding a gun are far from damming evidence or show “a history” of anything.. heres a few things about zimmerman tha are proven as it shows Zimmerman had no problem atticking a LEO or a women:
Zimmerman’s 2005 arrest for “resisting officer with violence” and
“battery of law enforcement officer” after a confrontation with an
officer who was questioning a friend for alleged underage drinking. The
charges were reduced to “resisting officer without violence” and then
waived when he entered an alcohol education program, according to court
documents.
A 2005 civil motion filed by Zimmerman’s ex-fiancee for a
restraining order alleging domestic violence. Zimmerman counterfiled for
a restraining order, and both were granted.
No one wants to hear about GZ’s THUG like behavior, he’s a little darling, just trying to help his neighbors out. He’s pure as freshly fallen snow, why don’t you believe every word he said?
Better be careful of what you say. They may want to kick you out the club. Those are fact but, people don’t want to here that.
I very much appreciate the sentiments expressed in this and previous articles. If at all possible, avoiding the confrontation seems like a worthwhile strategy. (It’s probably hardest to get shot when no one draws in the first place.) Who knows what Mr. Martin perceived? He very well could have felt VERY threatened by being stalked by Mr. Zimmerman. I know I likely would have.
My issue is this: “[E]ven though what [Zimmerman] did was stupid, it wasn’t illegal.” We can’t know if what he did was illegal, or (more importantly) immoral, because none of us was there. None of us was inside Zimmerman’s head. Our ability to assess the credibility of Zimmerman’s testimony is very limited in this case.
What we DO know is that, when charged, those prosecuting Zimmerman failed to prove criminal culpability beyond all reasonable doubt. That is all. Don’t get me wrong. It is appropriate that Zimmerman was acquitted under these circumstances, but I don’t think we can equate a jury verdict with an evaluation of morality, or even general legality. I think one would be a fool to imitate what Zimmerman did. Not only because it was unnecessarily confrontational, but because the prosecution may be better prepared to secure a conviction in some future circumstance.
“Leave well enough alone,” and, “don’t go looking for trouble,” are decent pieces of advice when dealing with volatile interpersonal conflicts. Everyone needs a “time out” now and then (just ask any married couple). Even if you’re right, what is the cost of trying to convince someone else, or of having the last word?
Jason I will not lie when I first seen your blog I was piss. I really could not see your side at all but you cleared your view up. However my son is 8 years old 3 belts away from his black belt he is taught to walk away, run away then if cornered defend yourself at 110%. Now in this case we never heard from either side what happened at the confrontation point. But truly believe if it was Trayvon who followed Zimmerman so the shoes where reverse and Zimmerman shoot Trayvon for following him they still would of have him the stand your ground law. No Justice No Peace
I am shaking my head while reading some of these posts, first off the ones that are saying “What I would of done…” BS, you have no idea what you would of done. If you are a vet and have been in the trenches you know that what you think and what you do changes in a milli-second. Then the morons who say he,GZ, stalked…..REALLY?? And followed, that is an assumption on any ones part and never proven. I say, you people against GZ can not have a pick and choose what you believe, no-0ne brings up that TM committed a felony assault and battery on GZ, also he had pics of child pornography, a felony, smoking pot and was in his system at the time of the event, a felony and was kicked out of school for fighting and like the feel of 9mm firearms. You say, GZ followed him, it’s NOT illegal and GZ was not following but keeping him in sight, which was in his police walk thru, if people listened. One ,more thing, when you call GZ a cop wanna-be, if that was the case why would a cop-wanna-be refuse to have his own car and uniform volunteering as a second pair of cop eyes. TM was a troubled “child my ass” with anger issues who settled his frustrations thru fighting as a thug young man, who would most likely been, in the future living in a correction facility on my taxpaying dollars.
both sides lost, so 1. stop justifying a lost and 2. learn from the mistakes.
I can’t believe the comments I am seeing, on both sides, about this case. Especially from folks who are licensed to carry or are instructors. First, state laws vary widely on what is Murder and what is manslaughter. Some states have First and second degree murder, and voluntary and involuntary manslaughter. Some have third degree murder, and some assign degrees to manslaughter. If your instructor didn’t explain all this to you, you should get your money back.
In NC, it wouldn’t have mattered if Zimmerman did throw the first punch. That’s right. If a person initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, they may regain the right to use deadly force in self defense if…
” (a) The force used by the person who was provoked is so serious that the person using defensive force reasonably believes that he or she was in imminent danger of death or serious bodily harm, the person using deadly force had no reasonable means to retreat, and the use of force which is likely to cause death or serious bodily harm to the person who was provoked was the only way to escape the danger.
(b) The person who used defensive force withdraws in good faith, from physical contact with the person who was provoked, and indicates clearly that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the person who was provoked continues or resumes the use of force.” ”
This is page 13 of the ” Concealed Carry Handgun training ” book, the “Red Book” , version III that the NC justice academy publishes for Concealed Carry students. There is also a yellow book for trainers that goes a little more in depth, but it is out of date. We just had a new law signed by the Governor that will change the law on where we can carry, where we can legally keep guns locked in a car, and contains some improved language on “pre emption” or the state’s right to make the rules with precedence over other government so we will be getting a new book soon.
I think the main problem(s) we are seeing here are 1) ignorance about the law, and 2) bad instructors. Really, really bad instructors. The general public is ignorant of the constitution and the laws of their state for the most part. History classes teach more about Marilyn Monroe than they do bout George Washington. Civics? No one teaches that anymore. From what I have seen, most CCH instructors teach a lot of really stupid stuff about their military or PO LICE experience, and spend ( waste) a lot of time trying to teach folks to shoot in eight hours. You can’t teach a person to shoot well enough to be competent in eight hours. My advice to instructors? Stick to the curriculum. It goes without saying you might want to learn it first. My advice to students? Don’t take down the number off a telephone pole where someone who moonlights teaching CCH classes has advertised. Dogs, people who are having yard sales, kids who want to cut your grass, and CCH instructors are the folks who leave their mark on utility poles here where I live. My class costs $ 30 more than the utility pole guy, and I let students have pretty much free access to guns, ammo, targets, etc. The other guys “rent ” guns and sell ammo. I spend 8 hours in the class room, like the law requires, and a minimum of 2 hours on the range is AVAILABLE. The standards are so low STEVIE WONDER could qualify on the range. I try to help folks all I can. If they can shoot already, I let them shoot and scoot . Lunch is included at my house. Some of the Utility pole guys sell crackers and drinks. You really, really should do your homework on this one folks. I would say you get what you pay for, but that is really being kind to some people who are really bad instructors.
I ALWAYS approach folks who are driving around or walking around in my private neighborhood. I politely ask them, ” Can I help you find someone? Who are you looking for? ” I have approached folks who were later arrested for breaking and entering, and the other day, I approached an SUV acting suspiciously. The folks inside “badged ” me. ATF folks. I later learned they were after the Dope dealer who lives down the road and were backing up the other folks who were actually approaching him to make an arrest. It seems they didn’t know who was always shooting in our neck of the woods. ( ME! Guilty as charged. ) They were a little worried it might be the dope dealer. No law against shooting in the county. I JUST HAPPENED to be open carrying. If I had been belligerent I might have wound up cuffed, or worse. There is a polite but firm way to let folks know you are concerned about who they are and what they are doing. By the way, we haven’t had a single theft here in fifteen years. Less than a mile from here a homeowner shot at a buglar a few nights ago.
I want to make more thing very very clear. We ARE our brother’s keeper. The law allows us to ask questions of people. The law does not allow folks who are We are allowed to be in a public place, and in NC, we can even “Detain” people if we have Probable Cause that a crime has been committed ( NC GS 15 a 404, a, b, c, d.) we can’t shoot to stop a fleeing criminal, LEOs can’t even do that since the GARNER case, unless the person fleeing is attempting to escape ” by means of Deadly force” THe wa that is worded is different in every state.. We can’t “arrest” anyone, and the difference between arrest and detention also varies from state to state. How much force is allowed to “detain” or “arrest” is different from state to state, even for LEOs.
It is all in your state’s General statutes, and your CCH instructor should have made you aware of all this in class, instead of trying to teach you how to shoot. A cch class, in NC anyway, is a BARE minimum of what is needed to responsibly carry a loaded deadly weapon in public. The good news is NRA has classes that can take you about as far as most CCH permit holders need or want to go. If your instructor has bothered to get any more than the minimum certs needed to satisfy state requirements, he or she can probably help you.
We are required to go over marksmanship fundamentals, but if the whole 8 hours were range time, good luck. If you got your training from someone who advertises on utility poles, I hope you enjoy the war stories while you are in jail. Personally, I am going to get some gunshot wound training. I am already CPR certified, but after the story here about selecting a good instructor I see that I need some emergency medical training as well.
Stay safe,
S.F.
I could not agree with you more. It is very disappointing to see comments by my fellow gun carrying community. As the lady said “He got away with murder”. You can be found NO GUILTY to the letter of the law but, morally guilty as hell.
I agree. It reminds me of a case in Florida years ago when a Klansman jumped out of a van and blew away a member of the Communist party that were having a parade. The whole thing was captured on video and the Klansman was still found not guilty. Disagreeing with somebodies political views does not give them the right to kill in my opinion. If it did, we would be in the bloodiest civil war ever known to man.
keep your eye on the prize. before incident- we have a klansman and a communist. after the incident- we only have a klansman. not ideal but better than before.
If that’s the case then if a catholic killed a baptist for being a baptist, it may not be ideal, but we would be better off than before. If we all had the right to kill someone because we didn’t agree with their beliefs, this country would cease to exist
I learned something many years ago…do not do stupid things, in stupid places, at stupid times, with stupid people….violate that, and you will pay the consequences…
Jason, I would really like to get your take on what exactly the complicit/corporate/state-run media is trying to accomplish with this whole psyop. I know these types of programs that are now being perpatrated on the american people is what the CIA specializes in. Of course one can see the obvious like the divide and conqurer using race and gun ownership. Also putting out the political correctness of SYG laws being wrong. Cui Bono?
He did nothing wrong as far as the law goes, He is the watch men in this area, so he would feel he had a reason to get out and see where he was going, He called 911, he wasn’t trying to be a hero he was just trying to view this guy on what he was doing, The problem is this kid was Violent to start an uppity Black kid that had a problem to start, I would bet all the money in the world when he was on the phone with the bimbo she told him kick his ass Trayvon, Kick the Crackers ass honey you go boy…. I know she said something on those lines. He just should of went home like he was going to. and if he was worried he could of called 911 him self. but he did not, But he did talk about getting a gun on his cell phone at some other time though. Thats ok I guess.
And when he got suspended from school for pot, what about the Jewelry he had on him? 12 pieces they said it was, He’s reply was oh I am holding for a friend,, no one ever knew who that was or found out. A Ghost I guess. The new Police chief went ape Sh– when someone leak it out, that they found that on him too. So the bottom line is TM was a Criminal to start, but GZ did not know it.
Really! An uppity black kid.
As usual, stories change the more time passes. The “following” has been characterized as “hunted down like a rabid dog” or “stalked. I believe the term used primarily during the trial was “followed”. Following does not necessarily mean physically following Martin between the building or along the sidewalk. Following can also mean “following with your eyes”. Zimmerman was at one end of the walkway, at the T. I do not believe he was physically following Martin on foot. I was surprised that the defense never referred to following with his eyes. The other points that Martin had available to him were 1-call the police, or 2-go home, which he had reached at one point, before coming back to Zimmerman. But, if I were Martin, I would not have been suspended from school for fighting, drug use, or theft. So, I would not be lurking around these residences, acting like a burglar.
No, I wasn’t there, either.
You were not there yet you state as fact “lurking around these residences, acting like a burglar, reaching home and coming back to Zimmerman”.
Look we were only able to hear ONE side of the story trayvon is dead,the key is neighborhood WATCH even as a retired law enforcemnet officer why would I follow someone who did not commit a crime.I live in a neighborhood and all the kids where hoodies black and whites should I follow them all,call the cops every five minutes?Zimmerman has his heart on his waist and used it now a kid is dead for doing nothing wrong.Hell I jog with a hoodie does that give you the right to follow me?And if you think zimmerman did not approach trayvon with his gun drawn or at least reached for it your crazy ,that’s why he got his ass beat trayvon was in survival mode.If I was to shoot someone and was justified I’m pretty sure the lawyer would let me testify.Zimmerman was told not to follow the police was on the way but he did because he has his gun and was going to use it before they arrived period I’m all for self defense but that was not.A lot of people didn’t follow the case until recently I followed from start to end now you have bottom feeders from both sides posting lies,racist comments and straight B.S and that’s a damn shame.
How do you know he didn’t commit a crime were you in his pocket? If you watched from the beginning you would have known about the rash of recent home break ins in the immediate area there were several homes broken into in the area that week. Also if you followed the case you would have know what T.M. said in his text to his gf before he attacked GZ .
One more thing you must have also been in Zimmerman’s mind also if you so adamantly knew he was going to shoot TM regardless . Do you know GZ lobbied to get the “white chief of polices son arrested for running down a black kid while drunk behind the wheel ? GZ spent days passing out papers on the victims behalf he was also a big brother and mentored several black kids does this sound like something a racist would do ?
How do you know that he TM committed a crime; where you in TM pocket? I get so tired of folk claiming that they have black friend or GZ help black kids. Do you think that slave masters loved all those black women that they had sex (raped) with? I don’t think so. You can not tell me you love me one day and then turn around sale me, my children,family or even kill me.
Of course your tired of hearing George Zimmerman helped out black kid because it destroys all your credibility and ability to call him a racist. Thats a fact
I do not know if he “Trayvon Martin” committed a crime or not , thats what Zimmerman was trying to find out . I’m not saying GZ he was a saint and helped all black kid s i only pointed that out for the folks that call him a racist because those are things a racist would NOT do
Also WTHeck does what happened 200 years ago have to do with TM and GZ ?
Open you eyes This entire T.M -G.Z ordeal is merely a ploy to take attention away from Benghazi and the IRS scandal and to potentially start a race war to further a hidden agenda.such as …If a race war started the Gov would implement martial law and take everyones “legal guns” with no recourse. Gezz almost sounds like they planned it all doesn’t it?
Based on the unsupported assumptions in your post I wonder just how you have followed the case from start to end. You seem to be going on superficial gleanings from the popular media. GZ was not ever told not to follow, he was already out of his truck looking for an address to give the dispatcher so the dispatcher would know where to send the police when the statement “We don’t need you to do that [follow]” was made. If you comprehended what you were following you would not have asserted so many unsupported claims.
Same old shit with the Trayvon saga. Did Zim really “stalk” the nikee? Supposedly, he called the cops on him, and verbally confronted him once (“What are you doing here?”) then walked away to get in his car, when Tray socked him in the head and “mma punched” him. If Zim was going away, Trayvon’s problem was solved (except if the cops picked him up for something). Should have been a done deal, but no, Trayvon wanted some “justice” for being questioned why he was on the street.
A nikee approached me before, coming up to me at the gas pump when he thought I was unaware, making that “tough guy” stride, without saying hey, or anything. I warned him loudly “I DON”T KNOW YOU. DON”T WALK OVER HERE. STAY AWAY FROM ME.” He didn’t listen till I’d taken a couple steps back and he figured out I would strike him if he moved again. He “just wanted some change for the bus”. Sure! Out of my wallet!
What sucks about all this is if you criticize the Trayvonian rioters or Trayvon’s actions, you are called ‘bigot” or “racist” etc. You don’t have to be a “zimmerman supporter” to see why he got off. The whole case was on the TV.
The point is that Trayvon was a suspicious male walking in a neighborhood that was under alert for recent roberies. Zimmerman was following him (NOT Pursuing him or chasing him) so he wouldn’t lose sight of him.
What is suspicious about walking down the street? Unless it is suspicious to be walking down the street when you are black or driving when black or jogging when black.
Murder is illegal.
Dispatcher:
Are you following him?
Zimmerman:
Yeah.
Dispatcher:
Okay, we don’t need you to do that.
Trayvon was standing his ground as he perceived Zimmerman as an immediate and very real threat to his life.
No one has answered this question, and I believe it needs to be asked: Was Trayvon Martin goaded into ‘whoopin’ some cracka’ azzz’ by Rachel Jeantel? She has admitted in TV interviews that he threw the first punch. No one asked her if she had any responsibility in suggesting he confront the ‘cracka.’